All-Community
Decisions: Each current committee submits a list of tasks they need help with. Form a Work Committee.
Topics:
Discussion: work system
Proposal:
Proposal File: proposals/
All-Community
Decisions: Committees will submit a list of essential jobs they need help with. Formed a "Work Committee". Landscaping gets bids for moving dirt pile.
Topics: work system, garden dirt pile
Discussion: Results of the Work System discussion; Discussion notes; Discussion re: "Mt. Dirt";
acm, landscape
Community Meeting on landscaping
Decisions: definition of yard; accept bid on central path construction
Discussion: master landscaping plan; LCA and yards
landscape, acm
community meeting discussion of master landscaping plan.
Discussion: Agenda: (1) consensus for yard plans. (2) bikes. (3) common house views, clotheslines, treehouse, hot tub. (4) water & mosquitos. (5) wild area vs. playing field. (6) immediate needs. (7) landscaping bond. (8) budget.
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics: phone, dining, welcoming, conflict resolution, first common meal
Discussion: renters
Proposal: reactivate conflict resolution. fund first dinner and stock kitchen
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Agenda: Renewing the current telephone service. Moving the move-in celebration. Renters and renting.
acm common house
Tables: Notes from discussion at community meeting
Discussion: common house tables
Here are transcripts of the notes taken during last Saturday's (11/6) ACM:
Anyone know Frannie's or Colleen S's new email address ?
- Each current committee is charged with submitting a list of what they feel are the essential jobs they need the member's help with. This does not include "Would like..." type tasks. The list should include complete descriptions including duration, frequency, and standards.
- A "Work Committee" is formed. Members are John, Vaughn, Linda Bonnie Hans, Paul, Colleen D. Preferred meeting times are Thursday, and evenings. First meeting this Thursday evening.
- The biggest obstacle to our sense of community: Trust.
- We need to be able to a) See the efforts of others, b) know what needs to be done.
- Need for accounting.
- be accountable to your self: No guilt, no resentment.
- The system must account for Physical Limits.
- We need to be able to Plan Ahead.
- We need a "Core Jobs List" for the sake of clarity and to set limits.
- We need to be able to have "Follow Through" and have completed tasks.
- There are inequities in the current situation.
- We want to keep things Clean.
- We need a Work committee.
- Committees particularly charged with contributing to the Jobs List are:
- Create a weekly limit of hours to be worked: Minimum, and Maximum.
- Encourage enjoyment and "cooperativity".
- focus on goals.
- avoid getting trapped in the "I have to do it or it won't get done." attitude.
- find ways to positively motivate, avoid discouragement.
- Communicate standards, expectations. Encourage communication.
- What can you do if you don't have much free time ?
- Have more gatherings which include lunch.
- Have a "Clearing Meeting" to work feelings through about work in the community. (Bonnie willing to facilitate).
- Quantify. Measure the amount of work necessary to sustain the community.
- Questions of Fairness: How does the community manage Group
Expectations and their impact on Individual Expectations ?
The questions which framed the Work Discussion:
The questions which framed the Work Discussion:
The biggest obstacle to our sense of community is trust. We need to be able to a) See the efforts of others, b) know what needs to be done.
Need for accounting
be accountable to yourself: No guilt, no resentment.
The system must account for physical limits
We need to be able to plan ahead.
We need a "Core Jobs List" for the sake of clarity and to set limits.
We need to be able to have follow-through and have completed tasks.
There are inequities in the current situation.
We want to keep things clean.
We need a Work committee
Committees particularly charged with contributing to the Jobs List: Landscaping & Common House Operations
Create a weekly limit of hours to be worked: Minimum, and Maximum.
Encourage enjoyment and "cooperativity"
focus on goals
avoid getting trapped in the "I have to do it or it won't get done." attitude.
find ways to positively motivate, avoid discouragement.
Communicate standards, expectations. Encourage communication.
What can you do if you don't have much free time ?
Have more gatherings which include lunch.
Have a "Clearing Meeting" to work feelings through about work in the community. (Bonnie willing to facilitate).
Quantify. Measure the amount of work necessary to sustain the community.
Questions of Fairness: How does the community manage Group Expectations and their impact on Individual Expectations ?
We would like the dirt pile removed before winter sets in.
We need the following details:
Landscaping to get bids including cost, when to start, when completed, how much member involvement.
Ceiling of $1000 okayed. Higher bids require Landscaping to return to ACM for approval.
Agenda: discuss master landscaping plan. (1) landscaping in original program, (2) yards. (a) degree of group approval required, (b) definition of yard vs. LCA, (c) what can be done with yard. (d) size of yard. (e) permanent structures in yards. (f) Consensed definition of yard. (3) wild area. (4) safety, especially ponds. (5) play equipment. (6) sprinklers, common house lawn. (7) Central path, (a) contractor bid vs. sweat equity. (b) cost. (c) time sensitivity. (d) design of path. (e) consensus.
(1) landscaping in original program
Mike P reminded the group that there were landscape plans included in the original programming of the site. Hans will make copies for those who don't have them. Mike would advocate requiring that changes to this program must be formally proposed and consensed. There are a couple of things in the master plan that conflict with the program.
(2) yards
(a) degree of group approval required. Five members expressed opposition to requiring a written consensed plan for area around a unit. A documented plan for a yard might useful. Possibly post it someplace like in the mailroom.
(b) definition of yard vs. LCA. Mike passed out copies of a site map showing the LCAs. LCAs consist of the porch and the area around the patio. "Yard" has no legal definition.
(c) what can be done with yard. Broaden concept of yard to consider people who have to look at your unit, for instance people across the path.
Can people plant trees of whatever type wherever? Discuss with neighbors who will be impacted for yards, for common areas check with landscape to make sure doesn't conflict with program or plans.
Residents of the east fourplex are concerned how soon can we determine if there is going to be a path behind the building. That area was programmed for fences but no decision was made as to how far they went (to the property line or not). The ridge of dirt placed by the neighbor to the south (JP knows him, Mike P has met him) complicates installation of fences along the property line.
(d) size of yard. How far behind unit into common area can people go for their yard? Jewel expressed opinion that group should be grateful if someone is willing to take care of part of common area.
If someone wants to maintain a common area, check with the landscape committee to make sure it doesn't conflict with plans. We need further community discussion on where paths go.
Vicky wondered how area around stacked units should be divided between upstairs and down. JP and Jewel in the north stacked unit agreed JP has the area on the side by his entryway.
If a new purchaser doesn't want to maintain the same area around a unit as the previous owner, the area reverts to the group.
(e) permanent structures in yards. For legal liability, land under permanent structures must have a signed lease (nominal rent, for instance $10/year), for example, Naomi's pergola or a patio or fenced area. Fence behind the crown fourplex was cut in the cost cutting. Trellises will considered not to be permanent structures.
(f) Consensed definition of yard: After discussion the group agreed on the following wording for the definition of a yard.
"Yard" is defined as the area in front of a unit up to the edge of the central path, approximately half the area to the side where the unit does not adjoin another unit directly (divided with the next-door neighbor, exact boundaries to be negotiated), and the area behind for a distance depending on the unit (approximately fifteen feet or to be negotiated with group). Areas not adjoining the resident's unit may with the consent of the group be "sponsored" by a resident.
No permanent structures are to be placed in the yard or a sponsored area without the prior consent of the group. Residents are personally responsible for purchase (in the case of owner residents) and care including watering (owners and renters) of plants in a yard or sponsored area. The group provides or subsidizes purchase of plants for crown units during lease period. Some soil amendments such as compost and sand will be provided by the group.
(3) wild area as possible quiet area
Is there going to be seating in the wild area? How does the group feel about the wild area being for quiet use? It was suggested we might postpone discussion of this until a future time, since the children weren't playing in the wild area. Hans expressed concern that since children are the only ones who are noisy, designating the wild area as a quiet area discriminated against children. Gwen requested that noise in the wild area be held down after 8:00 p.m. to respect Cedar's bedtime.
(4) safety, especially ponds
Bonnie would like discussion of safety, especially regarding the ponds. This issue was tabled for discussion later.
(5) play equipment
Increasing numbers of area are becoming off-limits for playing -- newly seeded north field, new sod to go on common house lawn, perhaps parking lots, etc. Where can the kids play? School will be out in two weeks. Group went outside to inspect east side of common house and discuss location of play equipment. Upon further consideration several parents who had wanted the equipment forward to be visible felt that putting it back towards the boundary made sense. Group consensed the play equipment location should be in the southwest section of the triangular area east of the common house. Stakes were put in the ground to mark the corners of the area. Hans is concerned about paint fumes from John Noorda's business painting cars, file cabinets etc. in his garage. He works on weekends on a contract basis. Investigate further before installing play equipment. If fumes are a problem, they will be a problem for any use of the common house area. Rather than just locating equipment elsewhere, fumes need to be dealt with. Vicky and Hans will go see John Noorda.
How is equipment to be funded? Play equipment as envisioned by the parents committee will cost $3,000 if someone else builds it. We have $1,000 available. The committee may spend up to $1,000 for parts for the play equipment.
(6) sprinklers, common house lawn
. Are we going to put in a sprinkling system before we lay sod by the common house? Before we can design a sprinkling system for the west side, we need to plan different sections with different water needs.
(7) Central path
(a) contractor bid vs. sweat equity. The contractor Bonnie & Vaughn were trying to get a bid from hasn't returned calls. Scott would like to do part of the work ourselves, for instance, leveling. It will be difficult to organize the labor of doing it ourselves. Doing parts & having the contractor do parts is also difficult. Scott suggests grading of the edge and putting out sand should be done by the group. Leveling and sand spreading could be done before the contractor starts. Vaughn would like it done in the timely fashion for morale. It's difficult for people who are moving to help with work projects. Having it done gets it done. A professional can give us a consistent appearance. Straw poll -- 9 prefer to hire, 4 to do it ourselves. Splitting work with contractor lets contractor shift liability for unsatisfactory work. Companies are reluctant to take on a piecemeal job. James would block accepting bid; his understanding upon joining the group was that we were going to be doing such things ourselves. Acceptable to him if we did part of the path ourselves. There are so many things that will need to be done Vaughn is not concerned (now) that there will not be other sweat-equity opportunities or that we will try to buy ourselves out of everything in the future. A time will come when the money won't be available to hire such jobs and we'll have to use sweat equity.
(b) cost. $18,000 bid is almost entirely labor -- sand and topsoil are a small fraction, the bid doesn't include bricks or porous pavers, another $3,000 to $4,000 and $7,810, respectively, or sod or plants. Kris would like to see a presentation with the appearance and especially the total cost including labor, pavers, bricks, sand, plants. Kay added up costs. $18,500 for labor, sand, & soil (sand would be around $200), $7,810 grassy pavers, $4,000 bricks (estimate), $2,500 sod = $32,810. $32,810 minus $10,000 grant = $22,810 total. Could be done cheaper with seed instead of sod for instance, or cheaper bricks. This money is already included in the cost of the whole project as part of the landscape budget. The path was originally contracted and was taken out as cost-cutting.
(c) time sensitivity. The contractors who have bid may have taken other jobs and not be available for months. Paul is concerned about time sensitivity, doesn't want to go through winter with the path not finished. Vaughn pointed out grant is also time sensitive. The agency gave us the grant on the understanding this was a high priority and would be completed by this summer, they would like to have photos and be able to give tours.
(d) design of path. Intermountain [actually Interstate] Brick is having a clearance sale. Kay would like to take a field trip to look at bricks. How many would like input on design? 10 people. We need to be sensitive to people with limited funds.
(e) consensus. Accept bid. James is willing to stand aside. Scott is also standing aside. The landscape committee or the bidder needs to do a presentation of what their plans are for the path. Mike wants group to have consensed on the shape & color of bricks rather than just a couple of individuals, especially not just the contractor. Final review of plan by group. Landscape committee should select a few choices of bricks and bring them to the group.
(1) consensus for yard plans. If neighbors consense to a plan for the area around a particular building, then who does the written agreement get taken to? the group? the landscape committee, simply filed somewhere? Possibly bring plan to whole group but give a lot of latitude. More discussion required on this issue.
(2) bikes. Further discussion is needed on issue of where biking is appropriate, for instance, in the parking lots.
(3) common house views, clotheslines, treehouse, hot tub. Be sensitive to not block view of mountains from common house with trees .
Gwen has a retractable clothesline she is offering for the common house. Somewhere on the property there should be the steel poles from the old clotheslines.
By common house may not be optimal site for treehouse tree.
Hot tub or sauna by common house.
(4) water/mosquitos. We get about $5 off the water bill (for the common house? for each household? for the community as a whole divided up by 26?) because we retain stormwater on-site. The fish in the bathtub don't begin to touch the mosquito problem. Naomi has floating pellets that can be put in the drains between the catchbasins but isn't sure they are safe for fish.
(5) wild area vs. playing field. How far north the wild area gets expanded depends on the extent of the playing field. A path from the common house to the wild area would be a privacy issue for Vicky & Mike.
(6) immediate needs. Immediate needs are (a) to suit the city about the entrances, common house, and boundaries, and (b) can Cathy go ahead with fencing around triplex (east end in particular).
(7) landscaping bond. The city will permit us to post a bond for about $9,000 (actually an escrow account) and will give us a temporary occupancy permit for the common house. Hugh said the bond is for landscaping the west side of the Utah, along the parking to the Noordas, around the common house, the island across from the common house, east of the east carports, and the frontage along Cheyenne -- basically, the entrance and border areas. This will buy us more time. We will get the permanent occupancy permit after the city sees and approves what we have done. The alternative instead of paying the bond is to use the money to do landscaping and hope that it is enough to satisfy the city. To get the final occupancy permit we may need to do more landscaping than the bond calls for, because the amount of landscaping for the bond was minimized to hold down the bond amount. The city is not requiring a plan. The areas on the bond were designated as grass but Hugh didn't seem concerned that the city would object if they ended up being something else (equally acceptable). The group doesn't have the money right now but will have about $400,000 after the crowns close next week. The group consensed posting the bond.
(8) budget. Get prices for items in master plan, such as irrigation.
Discussion ran out of time. Additional meeting scheduled for Saturday May 29.
The meeting date is a guess.
Date is a guess. No date given in minutes.
Please give copies to those who don't have email.
See the calender web page for the meetings schedule. (www.calendar.com/
Proposals:
Re-activate the conflict resolution committee
Fund the food for the first dinner and stock for the commonhouse.
Points:
Renters:
- We need to get to know them.
- They should be introduced at a general meeting.
- They have to abide by the C.C.& R.s, which are legal, written documents.
- They should have a lease with the owner.
- They are expected to participate.
- They don't have the right to block.
- There are time limits to renting.
- We are legally required to furnish them with an orientation.
"Welcoming Committee."
- Should be an application procedure.
- There should be a Guest List, maybe including Mug Shots.
- I.D. pins may be an option.
Conflict Resolution Committee:
- There already is an agreed-upon process.
- We need a Communication process before the conflict resolution process. Try to resolve "one-on-one" first.
- Regular "Clearing Meetings" should be held for those who need to vent.
- The C.R. committe should get training, as well as other skilled (and interested) people inside the community.
- Conflict resolution is the #1 priority.
Smaller tables will complicate family service.
Resin chairs tend to be wide and take up space; may not allow us to sit as close as necessary.
Round tables are better for conversation and seem to have less spills (Allisone's experience).
Rectangular tables can be slid together to be bigger.
Do a scale drawing with scale tables of different shapes & sizes and see what will fit.
[As an estimate, based on holding up a yardstick while I scooted my chair back, space between tables needs to be about 30" + 30" = 60" to allow diners to move their chairs back to get up without bumping into the chair behind them. Clearance when people are eating and chairs are scooted in would be about 18" around each table. This would leave 24" between chairbacks or greater if chair positions are staggered and would provide room to walk between tables. Kay]
The dining room is the largest room available to us, and it would be nice to have it available for other uses. Have folding everything. This is a concern for the long-term, not necessarily immediately.
Folding would be more complicated to build (Tim's experience).
Folding might need to be the very first criterion in table selection.
Round folding tables can be stored in a rolling rack. Look into secondhand caterer tables.
Speaking out for folding -- Allisone, JP, Lynne, Myste, Tim, Vivian, Colleen S., 11 out of 20 present.
Get by for a while with a mishmash of cheap tables, then make some ourselves -- wooden.
Mary has 2 sets of tables & chairs (in Oregon, however). Lynne & Mike have 2 sets. Bonnie has 1 (mentioned in email). Kris has a folding table she can loan.
Comfort is important -- cushions.
The common house should be finished March 15.
Tablecloths get trashed (Allisone's experience).
April 25, 2020