All-Community Meeting, Sunday, May 24, 2020
Topics: Topics: conservation easement, cohousing conference, work & participation, pandemic.
All-Community Meeting, Wednesday May 13, 2020
Topics: Topics: conservation easement, scheduling regular work parties, Covid-19.
All-Community Meeting, Sunday, April 26, 2020
Decisions: Decisions: Look at ways to reduce waste; if successful can discuss number of dumpsters. Hold emergency ACM next Sunday 3:00 p.m. to continue discussion of common house use for isolation.
Topics: Topics: Number of dumpsters; allowing Becca to stay in common house during isolation while waiting to see if she will get coronavirus.
Proposal: Proposals: Reduce number of dumpster to one
All-Community Meeting, Wednesday, April 8, 2020
Decisions: Decisions: Becca may park a pod in our lot, no stand asides. Make strong recommendations - Notify everyone if we test positive, know we have been exposed, or have symptoms; guidelines for common house use.
Topics: Topics: Storage pod for Becca, virus notification & common house use.
Proposal: Proposals: Storage Pod, Use of Common House during Pandemic
All-Community Meeting, Sunday, March 22, 2020
Decisions: Decisions: Messy crafts room to be used for seed-starting.
Topics: Topics: Earthquake prep, pandemic, seed-starting
All-Community Meeting, Wednesday, March 11, 2020
Decisions: Decisions: Gym will be locked and gym users must sign a policy agreement to get a key. Fence behind #18 approved.
Topics: Topics: gym, fence #18, reinvestment fee, pandemic planning, software to allow virtual attendance.
Proposal: Proposals: Gym Proposal, #18 Fence Proposal
All-Community Meeting, Sunday, February 23, 2020
Topics: Topics: late fees & waiver, safety, reinvestment fee, process committee split, maintenance.
All-Community Meeting, Wednesday February 12, 2020
Decisions: Decisions: North field garden approved for 2020. Edit fence proposal & bring back.
Topics: Topics: north garden, fencing #18/20
Proposals (appended & attached): North Garden Proposal, Fence between #18 & #20 (Cheryl &
Annalise).
All-Community Meeting, Sunday, January 26, 2020
Topics: Topics: Fence #9 proposal
Discussion: Decision: In the absence of a proposal being approved by or before the March 11 ACM, the fence will be taken down the next day, March 12th.
annualr
Annual Meeting minutes, Wednesday January 8, 2020
Topics: Topics: management election, 2020 budget.
Discussion: Decisions: Elected to Management, Vicky Wason (2 years), Joe Sweeney (2 years), Susan
Stewart (1 year), Marina Price (renters rep). Approved 2020 budget.
Discontinuing 6:00 Sunday [online] "potluck" meeting since nobody has been showing up. 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. is the morning check-in. Linda R is not always present, and if nobody comes it closes automatically after 40 minutes.
Becca has moved out, Tabor has moved in with Ben.
Ben sent a link for knife sharpening on-site. $1 per inch. Probably not the same company as before. Should we do the c.h. knives? Marina will sharpen them herself.
Vicky has sedum and hens-&-chicks in pots around her house. If you want some, take half of what is in the pot and leave the other half to regrow.
Vicky will buy medical grade masks, 5 packs of 10, in anticipation of next school year. Made in
US. She will email details if anyone wants to purchase some from her.
Lynda's kids have found their own place. Wayne will be spending more time here. Shelly's partner Jim is slowly doing better.
Register to vote by first of June to participate in primary in July.
Meets Mondays, 7:30 to 9:00, meeting link on calendar. Members are Vicky, Joe, and Susan (new this year), Victor and Kay (2nd year of term), and Marina (renters rep); Linda R is usually present as bookkeeper. Residents are welcome to attend. Having Roof Doctor out, loose shingles on Naomi's, should be under warrantee. Thanks to Amy for taking charge of that. Remember that if you aren't doing at least two hours of community work per month, you (each adult) should pay $40 per month to the community.
Reserve study said we should be resurfacing pavement 2018 one side, 2019 the other side. Got bid from Eckles, looked at some of their work. They wanted to do both sides at once. After much discussion and research, finally decided not to resurface this year. We will repaint the stripes and clean weeds out of the cracks ourselves (vinegar or burning); will be asking for a work party. 46 stalls, 3 handicap spots, Cheyenne no-parking curb. Getting stencils.
Now elm seeds are down, need to clean gutters, do any repairs. If you are able to do your own lower gutters, that will be helpful.
Unforgettable Coating gave $35,800 bid to paint fascias and soffits, using exterior acrylic Sherwin Williams. Some spots need repair. Can use help coordinating project, acting as point person with contractor.
Conservation Easement Task Force. Coming up with a list of questions. Met with Kevin Bell. He gave them some background and sent a map. Utah Dept of Agriculture & Food will be supervising department. Only downside in Kevin's view is you can't hope to make a killing selling your property to a developer. Kathy has an appointment for the task force to meet with the attorney. Hope to have proposal ready in June.
Welcoming & Procedures. Saturday May 30th is the conference online for national cohousing organization. Vicky & Laraine have been sending info on it to people who have inquired about units for sale in the past year. Procedures committee will be purchasing a registration for the community for $250 (funds they hoped to use for a retreat), so every community member can attend the conference and its break-out sessions, and we will have access to recordings. Linda will send out links for the conference. She has found the conferences she has attended very useful, learning about how other communities are dealing with the same issues we have. Please plan on attending next Saturday.
Marina reported on the results from her survey. Only one person wanted to pay more in fees instead of doing the work. One wanted to look through our budget and cut stuff.
Various ideas for work and saving money. Some work parties suggested were landscaping, elm seeds, deep clean & organizing spaces, washing windows, sweeping carports.
Some people said they are introverts and prefer opportunities to work by themselves. For work "parties" during Covid and for introverts, we could have a task of the week with a special push on Saturday to finish the job. The white-top work party was able to observe social spacing guidelines.
We can have both regularly scheduled work parties and special project work parties. Multiple people emphasized communication. Education is helpful. Could do a scheduled work party to train people in what needs to be done, how to do it, what tools to use, where things are stored, and then let people work on their own.
Laraine will take over balancing monthly teams from Becca.
Need someone to act as point person on the front windows that have slid out of position (faulty installation).
Please report what you work on to the pay-or-play log. This has the benefit not only of reporting your work hours, but also lets other people know has been done, so they don't do it over. Every email from the listserv has a link at the bottom that takes you to a pageful of links, including the pay-or-play report, calendar, and so on.
Is there a time limit? Hans has said no. On the other hand, he won't live forever. Kevin is eager to move ahead. The attorney would like to submit all parcels at the same time.
Maybe not limit use to agricultural. Maybe include recreation in the uses. Allow us to remove/replant trees if desired.
Glendale has had a thousand Covid cases, out of 100 thousand population, the highest rate inSalt Lake, highest in Utah.
Is the community satisfied with the guidelines that have been issued on notification of symptoms or exposure, c.h. use, emergency info on file etc.?
Q. Is anyone in the community an "essential worker" and is still going to work rather than working at home? Q. Should we post signs requesting visitors to wear masks?
On Monday, May 25, 2020 3:47 PM Kellie Henderson wrote:
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes acm 2020 05 24
Thank you kay for this note!
To answer the question at the end, i am still going to work rather than working from home.
Kellie
On Monday, May 25, 2020 7:13 PM, Vicky Wason wrote:
[WaCoHo] Re: minutes acm 2020 05 24
Thanks Kay.
When I gave the management report for ACM yesterday, I mistakenly gave the wrong figure for last year's estimate from Unforgettable Coating. That bid included both the carport painting AND the Facia & Soffits. Unforgettable already did the carport painting.
I mistakenly quoted the full price of $35,800. These folks will be coming out to update the bid.
I cut and pasted the information for just the Fascia & Soffits from the bid done last year.
Exterior Re-paint Fascia & Soffits for Resident Buildings
Best, Vicky
Saturday, May 30 Heart of Community, by Cohousing Association. Online conference. 10:00 to
4:00 Mountain time. Features a number of speakers people in our community have met. Early- bird rate $50 each or $250 for community. Keynote speaker, 3 break-out sessions with different subjects and focuses. Can participate in three sessions that day, view all twelve online later. Volunteers are needed for each session and will receive free registration; must be Zoom proficient.
Primary June 30, must be registered as a Republican to participate in Republican primary.
Former resident, Amanda, the daughter Jean Boyack, Hans's former tenant, died. Vicky will post the obit.
Safety & Security.
Looking at cameras for east parking lot. Meaghan may be able to get them for $40 each. Susan will check whether there is a monthly fee;. The cameras appear to have good resolution even at night. Will see about getting a better camera for the west side.
Maytag washer is working again. Someone will be getting in touch with all residents to learn if the fascia on their unit needs painting or repair. The fascia is the purple board under the edge of the roof that faces outward.
Proposal: Maintaining Garden Atmosphere of Glendale, Conservation Easement
Hans is arranging a conservation easement on his properties. He would like Wasatch Commons to agree to put an easement on some of its property. Hans will pay for all expenses.
He has put flags at the edges of where he is suggesting the north wild area, the north field, the east garden up to the lamp-post. The area east and north of the flags could never be developed.
There must be an assessment before the easement, then reassessed after the easement. The city periodically changes tax assessments anyway. An easement frequently drops the theoretical value of the property and decreases property taxes. The reason it lowers property value of the land is that it rules out large developers wanting to purchase it. The assumption is that growth will continue and open areas will become more valuable to develop. Assessment won't change tax value of the units, but each unit's individual portion of the tax for the land would be adjusted.
Residences near a conservation easement might become more desirable and valuable.
A conservation easement is written into the title of the property and is basically forever. This ties the hands of someone who might be living here 40 years from now. Whether that is good or bad depends on your point of view.
You can write into the conservation easement what you want to happen on the land and what you don't want to happen.
The Bells have a lot of information and have an attorney who does this work free of charge. Expert in property exchanges and estate planning. Hans says their attorney hasn't done easements.
Suggesting a task force to get more information. Have representatives do fact-finding to look into implications, work out what the community wants, meet with the lawyer. Then could come up with a more detailed proposal and have it approved by the community.
Q. to Hans: Would you be okay with a task force gathering more information before we make any commitment? Yes.
Task force: Kathy, Grace, Marina, Sara (after June 7), Richard.
Report on Successful Work Party & Discussion of Scheduling Regular Work Parties.
Had a work party Saturday pulling white top. Filled yard waste bins and gave some to chickens. Ended at Izzy's birthday party.
Management has been discussing the possibility of regularlyu scheduled work parties. Most communities have regular work parties. If community members don't do work, we have to pay for it, which impacts monthly fees. See the same people doing the work all the time. Want to get more people involved.
Having a work party at a regular day/time every month would let people schedule for it. Maybe have two each month at different days/times so people can choose which (or both) according to their schedule. Marina will send out a survey asking people what days work for them.
Kudos to Kathy for setting up Adopt-A-Spot and keeping it going.
Glendale is currently the covid hotspot for Utah.
Do we have a no-touch thermometer that we can use for the community? Can the community get one? Hans has ordered one and would give it to the community at cost if they want. About $200. County site says cough is a more common system than fever.
Tabor has recovered, had a negative test. Becca is confined until May 21. Tabor is moving in with Ben, probably after Becca is released.
Spending time with an adult child, getting to know people more deeply via video talks, learned to make sour dough bread, picked up crocheting again & made 5 shopping bags, looking forward to having a sour dough baking contest, friends from high school are getting in touch, north garden, tree planting, getting caught up at work, spending time at home & figure out creative ways not to travel, noticing birds at sunrise, support & love from friends & family, enjoying blossoming trees, find it interesting to learn how to solve communication issues & learn how important they are, reading professional development & research, enjoying doing a lot of gardening, spending time with family visiting, taking class from Berkeley, looking forward to end of semester.
Every other Tuesday cohousing talks on topic of coronavirus & living in cohousing.
Federation of Intentional Communities, community connect, May 2 next Saturday 2:00-4:00 p.m.
Got cooler in garage working.
Guy will start work on fence in Cheryl's back yard sometime between Monday & Wednesday, a three-day job.
Concierge Cooler, coming next weekend, contact them directly if anything to communicate.
Updated adopt-a-spot list. Thank everybody who has taken a spot. If you haven't chosen a spot, you can do a walk-about with Kathy and choose one. Area between east garden & wild area needs mowing.
Thank everyone who showed up for tree planting today. Lacebark elm & turkish filbert on west berm, tulip tree, burr oak by c.h., apricot tree by east garden orchard. Hazelnut usually produces nuts about every three years; need a pollinator, there are a couple in the neighborhood. Talk to
Amy about getting trees at cost if you want to plant one in your adopted spot.
Facilitation. Will post list of meetings needing a volunteer to facilitate.
North Field. Thanks for bringing in chips and compost. Seedlings from seed-starter will be ready to be planted soon.
If anyone is looking for something to work on, let Management know. We can save a lot of money if we do work ourselves. Each owner/renter evaluate fascia on your unit
(purple parts), whether it needs painting this year or can slide for another year, let Management
know. Need a volunteer for project. Also let Management know if you can help with painting.
Getting a few more inquiries recently. This weekend would have been our annual open house. Some communities did virtual open houses. Not encouraging people to come tour.
Safety/Security. A few car break-ins recently. Kierstin & Trevor's car has stuff stolen. Stuff stolen off Carol's porch this morning. More break-ins in west parking lot than east; light at night seems adequate. Safety & Security has a few motion-sensor lights available. Could someone keep track of incidents, see if there are any patterns (Susan & Richard for Safety & Security).
Remember personal safety comes before stopping something illegal. There is a written log in the common house. Maybe upgrade to better camera that could catch license plates.
Victor: Lots of things he'd rather do than have lots of trash.
Most companies won't pick up recycling bins if they are not also picking up dumpsters.
Amy has experience with Atkinson [another waste company], who might be cheaper.
The reasons for suggesting using the enclosure behind the common house if we go to a single dumpster are that it is a central location for everyone and would keep trucks off parking lots.
There was a third dumpster there when we moved in, which we discontinued. The roof got added later. Can the dumpster lid be raised under the roof? Linda R says, only partly, and she can't hold the lid and heave something in at the same time. It isn't a problem for the waste company, because they pull out the dumpster before picking it up.
It's a long way to take trash all the way to Utah St from the east side.
Since we haul the recycling bins to the road anyway, they could stay where we keep them now.
The cost mentioned is a guess based on our current bill, rather than a quote obtained from the company for only one dumpster.
If we don't have enough room in the dumpster, it will be much harder to dispose of tree debris.
Spent $300 last year to pay to get things hauled away that couldn't be fit into the dumpsters or bins. A lot of the trash is brush & branches. Don't think it's feasible unless we have another way to dispose of that.
Some stuff going into the brown bins would be composted, and leave the brown bins only for branches. Weeds can be thrown in with the chickens to shred.
People near both dumpsters complain that the smell gets bad with weekly pickup, so every other week pickup might get very unpleasant.
Could put a larger trash can in the common house, and people who don't want to go to Utah St could leave their trash there; Victor and maybe a couple of others could volunteer to empty it more often.
Could we try putting everything in one dumpster for a while to see if it works, before we get rid of the second dumpster? Trial run, put everything in just one side for a week or two, no yard waste in dumpsters?
Becca has experience with helping communities reduce their waste. Could we work on reducing waste before we try going to a single dumpster?
Straw poll on proposal: nine thumbs up, five stand-asides, five thumbs down. Straw poll on trial:
10 up, 2 down, 5 sideways.
No consensus.
Proposal Allow Becca to Isolate in Common House
Tabor is required to quarantine for three days after he is asymptomatic; Becca is required to isolate for an additional fourteen days after that. They can't go out; nobody can come in. If
Becca gets sick, she must extend quarantine until three days after she is asymptomatic.
Becca & Tabor were supposed to move out May 1; that's been extended to the 22nd, but
Annalise & Alex aren't willing to extend past that. Sale date was moved back by about a month.
Would it be possible for Becca to quarantine in the common house? Becca could write a formal proposal for May 13 ACM.
Hard to get an Air-BnB to rent to someone who may have coronavirus, and the rental would have to be for an indefinite period, in case she gets sick and must extend her stay for several weeks.
Becca is paying rent on another place from May 1 but can't move there until seventeen days after Tabor is asymptomatic. Movers can't come into the house.
Know Becca didn't have covid on Wednesday afternoon. No guarantees she hasn't developed it since, or that that wasn't a false negative. Health department says don't move until the isolation period is over. Becca can't get tested again unless she is symptomatic, according to the health department. They won't give an antibody test until she's out of quarantine. She was sick about a month ago but tested negative.
Would Alex have housing problems if she couldn't move to that unit? No, Alex's contract with
Hans is very flexible.
Could maybe have food delivered and carried up to the upstairs room, or the downstairs room has an entrance & bathroom right next to it and a door that could be closed to the rest of the common house. Could put a microwave in the downstairs bathroom.
East hall is open to the upstairs guestroom lobby. Might be able to seal plastic across opening and over door into dining room. [and across windows from upper guest room to hall.]
Could seal off the hallway to the laundry.
Meeting extended past 5:00.
The c.h. has three separate furnaces, so there isn't air flow between areas through the duct system.
This situation is unique because of it being in the middle of a house exchange. It is the first occasion we've had to worry about someone could use the common house; however, we may have another year or two of the pandemic. Need to figure this out, if not for Becca then for the next person.
Whether Becca uses the c.h. or not, we need a task force to prepare the common house since we can't predict what will be happening in two weeks or two months. Be proactive and use this time to prepare. There are creative ways to get mail or get laundry done for people who don't want to go there if someone sick is there.
Households with single occupants who aren't moving wouldn't have difficulty isolating.
Can we get a Prepare the Common House Now group together? Alex, Diana, Mary. Email Alex &
Diana if you are interested in participating.
Containing infection is easier if kept to a single location.
Is there anything the community can do to help with whatever is causing Alex and Annalise be firm about the move-out date? If it's an issue of double rent or mortgage payments during this period, there are probably people who would be willing to contribute.
Swamp coolers mean air being forced through the house. Maybe have people open a back window in their units so air isn't blowing onto the central path.
Can we have another meeting to discuss this in a week rather than wait until the next ACM?
Could we have a report by then from the task force on what is doable with the common house?
We have had emergency ACMs in the past when there were time-sensitive issues that needed to be dealt with and have waived the seven-day notification period in emergencies.
Willing to help with proposal: Kay, Annalise.
100% thumbs up on ACM next Sunday at 3:00 p.m.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Wasatch Commons will only have one dumpster which will be located in the enclosure behind the common house.
- saving thousands of dollars (approximately $1,500 per year)
- reduction of the community's environmental impact by being more mindful of our consumption and reducing our waste
- large garbage trucks will not be regularly crossing the parking lots and damaging the asphalt
(plus less pollution with only one collection)
- We'll only have one dumpster.
No consensus.
Vicky suggests that everyone should mute their mic unless they want to speak, to reduce extraneous noises taking over the focus, e.g., babies, cats, phones.
Linda R is making home-made masks and needs some cord to use as ties.
Physicians for a Healthy Environment has plans for face masks out of cotton. Require nonwoven mesh inside; Hans ordered some.
Hans is working to get a conservation easement on his, the Bells', and Mary's property. He may
be writing a proposal for WCCA to put the garden area under easement.
White Awareness Group is taking a hiatus.
Recommending to minimize vehicles' time outside parking lots (that is, driving/parking on the path or in the wild area). If you are backing up, have a second person behind the vehicle watching.
Freezing landscape funds, won't be hiring anybody to do work. Kathy sent out the Adopt-a-Spot list. There is a map by the kitchen showing where all the areas are. If you have questions about what is needed in an area, talk to Kathy. If you want to adopt an area, shoot Kathy an email.
A number of weeds have seeds that stick to clothing. Linda R will pull them out if she sees them along the path, where they tend to grow because they fell off someone's clothing. so please don't panic if you see her pull up something in your yard, it's one of the weeds.
North garden. Has put out a seed order. If you have seeds you'd like to start, reach out to Alex,
Tabor, or one of the other north gardeners.
Becca will be moving out of Annalise's, soon to be Alex's, house.
The pod could be stored at the pod warehouse, but Becca wants to have access to it if she is staying in the community. She may not be. She is moving by May 1. She had planned to stay at
Ben's, but she is volunteering at the hospital and since he has asthma doesn't want to risk any chance of exposing him.
The pod takes up a single parking space, but needs an empty spot beside it during delivery.
Kathy would like an agreement that we don't have more than two pods at the same time. However, we'll be reluctant to enforce that if multiple households are moving at once.
Suggestion to put the pod on the concrete pad by the common house (driveway to dumpster enclosure). That is city property, not ours.
Consensus that Becca may park a pod in our lot, no stand asides.
Proposal written by Vicky & Lauren.
The national cohousing organization is having webchats about the pandemic; Vicky has listened
to a couple of them.
Notification of Diagnosis, Symptoms, or Exposure If Known
Months into this pandemic, testing is still not as wide-spread as it should be. People get exposed; often they don't know but sometimes they do. People are contagious before they have symptoms; tested after they have symptoms; then finally diagnosed. Diagnosis is late in the game.
Amend wording: Agree to notify everyone if we test positive, know we have been exposed, or have symptoms.
If someone is diagnosed, could the healthy household members go stay in the common house? If one person in the household has it, the "healthy" people have been exposed and would potentially expose anyone coming into the common house. Some households don't have enough rooms to isolate someone in their household. Someone could stay in the downstairs bedroom without ever going into the dining room.
Revisit this question periodically/as needed.
Do we want to restrict "inessential" activities, that is, allow nothing but laundry & getting mail?
Kay has using the upstairs to work "from home". Is this an essential activity?
Quiet activities that don't result in heavy breathing (encouraging viral spread) might be okay.
People who are already sheltering together, i.e., members of the same household, wouldn't expose each other further being together in the common house, but that isn't true of people from different households.
Suggestion: People use the door closest to where they are going, for instance, the outside door of the kids room to get the badminton set, or the kitchen hall door for the laundry or seed- starting station.
Lauren wants a sign on the door that the common house is closed and the mail carrier should not use the restroom. Maxine would rather not have any nonresidents come into the common house. The mail carrier bringing in packages is touching the inner door, the table, the restroom door and so on.
Mail carriers aren't required to wear masks and gloves.
It's hard for mail carriers to find someplace clean to use a restroom. Don't feel comfortable taking that away. Diana would be willing to come over and wipe down doors if the carrier will text her when he will be here. Would rather be hospitable than make the mail carrier's life more difficult at this time.
The mail carrier is doing an essential job, but putting packages inside isn't essential, and we aren't a public facility, providing a public restroom.
We have two other restrooms in the common house.
We could collect people's mail and put it on the doorstep for people who aren't comfortable with the risk level of the common house.
Designate the kitchen hall bathroom as the one the mail carrier uses and residents don't use it.
Can We Do a Consensus Decision from This Proposal?
Some people think a decision is urgent enough that we shouldn't wait for another ACM for consensus, yet the proposal is so vague that people who couldn't attend have no idea what would be decided. It's mostly questions, a template for discussion more than a proposal. We amend proposals during a meeting, but if the changes are extensive we bring a proposal back for consensus at the following meeting.
Victor objects to having a list of what are okay activities. Others can't see a difference between his expressed position and the proposed recommendations.
Put the results of the discussion out as "strong recommendations". Post on door of common house. Kathy will put out the list.
Recommendations below from Kathy's email 4/9/2020, 5:39.
Temporary Guidelines for Wasatch Commons during COVID-19 Shelter in Place
ú Please notify the community if you are symptomatic, know that you have been exposed, or test positive to COVID-19.
ú If you must go into the Common House: o Go into the CH alone or with someone you are already in isolation with. o Wear mask and gloves (if you have them) while in the CH . o Engage only in quiet activities (like reading, computer work) to avoid heavy breathing that is more likely to spread the virus. o Enter by the door closest to your activity (i.e. use the back door to go into the laundry room). o Keep inside doors closed as much as possible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Proposed April 1 for Consideration on April 8.
This is a unique time in our history. This is a unique time for our close knit community. As an agenda item for the next ACM Vicky and Lauren thought there should be a discussion about setting and agreeing to guidelines in keeping with current Utah regulations and CDC recommendations as we try to maintain a healthy community. This proposal is a bit vague because we want everyone in the community to offer their input at the ACM on April 8.
What do we want to agree upon during these special times? We propose we come to the ACM to listen to each other and see if we can come to a consensus. If you can't be at the ACM zoom meeting, please make an effort to discuss these ideas with others. Proxies can be given to someone to represent you during the Zoom ACM.
1. Testing positive or symptomatic? Do we agree to notify everyone if we test positive for COVID19?
2. Common House? How do we want to use our Common House? Do we agree to use the Common House only for essential activities (mail, laundry, etc)?
Do we agree that we will temporarily not have any guests in the CH? What about if someone wants to use a guest room to protect a healthy member from a household member who tests positive for Covid19? Or gatherings in the CH? Or working from home in the CH?
Do we agree that parents can make their own decisions about their children using the Kid's room & Playground and other areas? Laundry? Gym? Special Cleaning? Postal workers using the bathroom? What cleaning expectations can we agree upon during these special times?
3. Financial Considerations because of the Pandemic. Delay Late Fees, etc?
4. Pets. what are our agreements concerning pets.
5. Others coming and going? Given that the spring is often a time for us to have services done: swamp coolers, sprinklers, gutters, driveway repairs are there any special considerations we want to put in place? Should we wait until after Utah cases peak? May?? Do more repairs ourselves? Delay repairs until 2021?
6. Emergency contact information & extra keys. Could we all agree to write the names of people who should be contacted and put in a sealed envelope and for privacy reasons write our name on the seal & put in the internal mail. This envelope would only be opened if necessary.
7. Other agreements we want to make during these special times? How long should we put these changes in place for? Maybe briefly revisit every ACM until pandemic is resolved.
Decision: Issue results of discussion(s) as strong recommendations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Proposal: Allow Becca to keep a storage pod in a parking space in the west lot from April 11th until June 30th.
Background: Alex has purchased unit 20, and Tabor and I have to move out by May 1st. The pandemic has made arranging housing difficult, and hiring movers irresponsible from a public health perspective. Ben has graciously offered to allow both of us to rent from him for at least the next several months, but I have more belongings/furniture than will easily fit into his home.
Details: PODS moving services offers portable storage units in a variety of sizes designed to fit into a standard parking space. On the days of the drop-off and pick up I will have to ask community members to vacate the parking spaces on either side of the designated space.
After the drop-off day, the pod will only occupy a single parking space.
If shelter-in-place instructions are still in place by the mid-June, I may ask the community's permission to extend my use of the parking space at the June 28th ACM.
Decision: Consensus, no stand asides.
Set up as recurring meetings [subject to change, see email/calendar]:
Linda will send an email with the schedule.
Exchange students have been sent home & won't be using c.h.
Brief cloud of smoke 6 p.m. yesterday, don't know what it was.
It would be useful to have an earthquake plan in place and circulate it, especially for residents who didn't grow up in an earthquake area.
The Great Shake-Out drill is in April; Marina will send link. People who work at the U have participated in it previously. Kevin Bell is part of emergency planning for the city.
Ben is trying out some safety latches to keep cabinets closed during a quake.
Everyone should have a flashlight & shoes next to their bed. Have heavy gloves. Change water storage a couple of times a year.
Emergency box is in back crafts room.
Reminder to everyone to add earthquake rider to individual condo insurance. Can't add until 30 days after a quake.
Using a high-temp wash is not necessary. To avoid contamination, please halt the courtesy of taking other people's laundry out of dryer.
Linda R will send out a pattern for home-made face masks. Clever Octopus is requesting
100% cotton face-masks, not so much for medical as other needs. Wearing masks protect other people. Cloth masks are a step down from N95 but probably equal to paper masks.
Need to prepare the community and have an emergency system to follow. Designate who should check on who so everybody gets checked on.
Reactivate use of red/green signs to say we're okay or we have an issue.
Have a file of emergency contacts, medical. Put one-page version in internal mail folder, giving location of longer file in unit. Electronic version also. Lynda will prepare a template for emergency form. If you are concerned about privacy, put in an envelope and sign & tape over the flap.
Put emergency information in a ziplock in the freezer (emergency responders know to look there). Only a couple of units have emergency gas turnoff tool cable-tied to gas meter.
Alex cleared linens off the rack in the messy crafts room to use it for seed starting trays.
Coordinate with Alex if you would like to use it to start from seeds. She has soil for seed starting.
What seedlings would people like if they want to use the system? Rack could be disassembled when not starting seeds, say Sept-Feb. Could use rack to store Jam Club output during fall and winter.
Right now some of the linens that are set out are ones used in the guest rooms and need to be put in the guest rooms. Each guest room is supposed to have two sets. Will be sorting those out and then giving away the remainder.
Might use space in crafts rooms to store extra tables.
Snow blower in messy crafts room is where it can get hit by door. Move to garage in spring/summer? Useful to have in c.h. in winter. Charging facilities are better there.
Consensus: Alex may use messy crafts room for seed starting.
A few people who don't live here are on email listserv and some who live here are not. Vaughn and Shad are on. Vaughn was the mortgage holder for Annalise's unit. Shad used to live here.
Group to discuss: Kay, Mary, Kathy, Susan, Marina. 6:00 p.m. this evening.
April 25 and 26, tree planting party.
Alex is buying unit 20.
North garden fundraiser is canceled/postponed.
Linda WG has a good job offer elsewhere, and she & John will be relocating. For now Sara will stay on in their house.
Leak on east berm has been repaired, and freeze-proof standpipes can be turned on. The other bibs can be turned on, but please turn them off when you leave the garden.
Tree Committee. Wrapping has been removed from red cedar on east drive. April 25 and 26 tree planting party.
No Trespassing sign added to gate across alley.
Discussed washer, keypad locks, increasing community involvement with maintenance. Need volunteers for the jobs written in the whiteboard cabinet.
The provisions in the proposal are pretty standard for a gym.
Despite proposal title, it will not be a "membership". It is a requirement to read and agree to the rules before getting a key.
The upstairs doors will be kept locked. They already have locks. Distribution of keys (or keypad combo) could be managed either by Underutilized Spaces or by Management. Residents under 18 may request permission at ACM to have access.
Rules will be posted.
Will probably have a work party to finish the last steps. Appreciate it if gym users will show up to help.
Consensus, no stand asides.
Concerns from previous discussion were about bringing the fenceline closer to the walkway and more visible, pea gravel surface, solidity of fence. Cheryl thinks she has solved two issues and is hoping that buys her some leeway on the third.
The fence is moved further east. It won't be as visible.
Surface proposed is wood chips. Concern raised about wood chips being unsanitary, can't hose them down, smell builds up, harbor insects. Sand would drain better and would actually improve soil for future gardeners, not cause problems like gravel.
The reason for not separating Cheryl's backyard and Lynda's is that Lynda's is so small. The space behind #20 is deeper and losing some isn't as big an impact.
Cheryl would like to put pavers across the back of her unit, just set in the dirt.
Cheryl has consulted Lynda every step of the way Consulted with Annalise and now Alex since she will be new owner of #20. Lynda and Alex are both in favor of the proposal. Cheryl is happy with Alex's plans for #20's back yard.
Revised proposal satisfies Mike's concerns.
Concern raised, would like to see the space equally divided between the two units. Even though the current owners are fine with the arrangement, it's not fair to future owners. However, this proposal is more equitable than the current layout. Future owners will be seeing the yards before they buy them and know what they're getting, and if desired can renegotiate the boundary.
North/south fences will need gates.
Would like to see agreements from animal owners that animal's areas on common land be kept clean.
Amendment: Surface should be a permeable material that isn't gravel and is environmentally friendly.
Consensus, no stand asides.
Handout: more information on reinvestment fees, sample of typical questions from a title company, and a list of 37 ownership changes in twenty
years. If we had had this fee all along, our finances would be 37 x $500 =
$18,500 better off.
Part of the negotiation during sale is who pays the fee. The community doesn't need to specify who pays it.
Some places also have fees for filling out the title company's form or for tenant move-in/move-out.
How was the $500 amount arrived at? The amount is not fixed at this point. It's roughly half the maximum allowable. We have hard costs associated with sales, and we also have considerable volunteer work by residents. Condos that are professionally managed can quantify the labor costs more easily, but that doesn't mean ours aren't real. Recruiting and orientation takes time away from other community work, some of which we do pay for when it isn't done by a resident.
Discussion to be continued.
The pandemic is going to require some mental and emotional adjustments, and may feel a little less like the community we're used to.
Community meals may become difficult. Can't keep a mask on when eating.
From evidence so far, people who have no symptoms can be contagious.
Not all hand sanitizers work, and some will damage your skin. Be wary of
DIY recipes. Chemicals that you can be casual with at low concentrations become dangerous at higher concentrations, for instance acetic acid; a 5% solution (salad vinegar) is harmless, 70% will burn.
The community needs volunteers to become proficient with the technologies that would let us hold distance meetings to lower exposure. Zoom requires a license or subscription. Cohousing-L uses Zoom. With Zoom, can send a link out to members that they click on and it opens up, maybe simpler for nontechnically oriented residents.
Linda R has a little experience with Zoom. She's willing to learn more but doesn't want to be the sole or point person on the project.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To create a safe, sustainable gym, the Underutilized Spaces Committee recommends the following rules be acknowledged by anyone wishing to use the gym. Once these rules are completed and consensed by the community,
each community member wishing to have a key (or access) to the gym will sign a copy, to ensure they understand and accept these rules.
1. No unaccompanied minors (under 18) are allowed in the gym. Direct supervision of minors required.
2. Gym must be returned to the state in which user found it, or better. Any excessive dirt brought in from the outside must be cleaned, lights turned off, equipment put away, etc.
3. No additional equipment may be placed in the gym without permission from the
Underutilized Spaces Committee or community approval.
4. To reduce the dirt brought in on shoes, a shoe rack is available for semi- permanent storage of gym shoes in the gym on the left. Frequent gym users are encouraged to use the rack.
5. Guests of community members may use the facility, but are bound by these same rules. The host is ultimately responsible for the guest.
6. Do not borrow or remove anything from the gym.
7. No smoking, food, or sodas permitted. Water only. Exception may be made for events with prior written permission and understanding that clean up will be required after event.
8. Wipe down equipment after use.
9. Do not drop weights; keep weights on mats only.
10. Return all weights to the racks.
11. DO NOT LEAN ANYTHING AGAINST MIRRORS (weights, equipment, your body, etc.) Avoid touching mirrors.
12. No pets are allowed.
13. Use of this facility is at your own risk.
14. Attend semi-annual cleaning parties when possible.
15. Access to the gym may be restricted or revoked if rules are not observed.
Pros: A clean, well-maintained gym if all who use it take ownership in its upkeep. No misunderstandings about using equipment, potential dangers of equipment, expectations, etc. Any community member over 18 can have access.
Cons: Restricted access for community members under 18, enforcement is difficult, and largely on the honor system.
Consensus, no stand-asides, 3/11/2020.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Proposal: Add fencing to allow for dog run between Units 18 and 20
Author: Cheryl Keil, Unit 18
Version 2, dated 3/4/2020
[See pdf for drawings & photos.]
First thing I want to clarify is that I will use the word "yard" a number of times throughout this proposal. I hesitate using this word because all of the
land is Common Area and technically none of us have "yards" that are our own private property. But I don't know what other word to use, so bear with me.
The problem I'm trying to solve:
The way the fences on "Dog Row" are currentlyconstructed, all other units besides 18 (Cheryl) and 16 (Lynda) have their own individual space behind their unit with a fence on the east and west border of their yard. Unit 20
(Annalise) has a fully enclosed yard. So does Unit 25 (Lauren). Unit 21
(Alex/Gary/Diana [owned by Hans]) doesn't have a fence on the south side of the yard bordering Hans's property, but there is a fence on the east and west border.
Lynda and I are the only ones on Dog Row who share a yard. And under normal circumstances this would be fine. But my dogs (Bert in particular) are very hard on this area. Bert has dug a number of holes in the yard. Plus, he runs so much out there that he's pretty much trashed the grass. I try to stay on top of cleaning the yard but sometimes life happens and I'm not as good as I should be. And as a result ... Lynda no longer enjoys being in the yard (I don't blame her) and her grandkids no longer can play back there.
The dogs track a bunch of dirt into my house with their muddy paws as a result of the grassy area being trashed, and therefore my floor/house is impossible to keep clean.
What used to be a really nice outside area is now pretty much destroyed. We need a better solution so we can restore what was once a very nice, well kept space behind Units 16 and 18, while also allowing a mud-free, safe, enclosed area for Bert and Abby to run around in.
This updated proposal (Version 2) is intended to address concerns brought up at the Feb 11, 2020 ACMregarding the original version.
The main concerns noted were:
- Bringing the north fence line further north, therefore making it more visible from the walkway.
-Putting pea gravel in the dog run.
- Using a solid wooden fence instead of lattice.
Version 2 of this proposal eliminates the first two concerns. However, I would like to stick with the plan to use a solid wood fence on all borders of the dog run. This is a safety issue for my dogs and also a durability issue.
Amendment: Surface should be a permeable material that isn't gravel and is environmentally friendly.
This drawing is more spatially accurate than those provided in Version 1.
Each square of the graph paper represents a 2' x 2' area. Black lines are
borders of Units 16 (Lynda), 18 (Cheryl), and a tiny bit of 20. Brown lines represent the current fence lines. Tan shaded area is a breeze way between my unit and Lynda's. Pavers cover that entire area.
Consensus as amended, no stand-asides, 3/11/2020.
No Announcements.
Committee Reports
Underutilized Spaces. Idea for a gym "membership" where the dues would be time cleaning or maintaining the gym. Suggesting a rule of no unsupervised children under 18; some equipment could potentially be dangerous if misused. Keep room locked for safety. Marina will write a proposal.
Management. Discussed reinvestment fee, Maytag washer error, doing budget earlier.
Locks. Becca's purse was stolen including keys and license. She changed the lock on her unit and notified Management. The locksmith estimated $85/deadbolt (7 doors) and a couple of hundred for lever-handled doors (2 doors)145, so total would be nearly $1K.
Management may install a keypad lock on the inner office as a trial. It is keyed by itself.
Review of Procedure for Late Fees. Condo fees are due on the first of each month with a grace period until the 10th. After that a late fee of $25 is charged. A form to request a waiver of the late fee is in the bottom drawer of the internal mail file cabinet. Since the due date is the first, if you don't pay by the tenth you need a better reason than "I forgot."
Reinvestment Fee
Sale of units has expenses to the Association such as ads, copies of the bylaws, and the bookkeeper's time completing title company forms. The community invests considerable time answering inquiries, giving tours to potential buyers, and orienting new residents.
Many condos charge a fee when a unit is sold, paid by seller, and in Utah law called a
"reinvestment fee" (colloquially sometimes called a "transfer fee").. Title companies always ask about reinvestment fees along with capital reserve balance, law suits, liens, & dues owed by particular unit being sold. We've never charged one; it wouldn't have made sense with the initial sales, and the founders don't seem to have thought further than that. By Utah law the maximum is .5% of the sale price. Charging the maximum, a $150K unit would have approximately a $750 fee.
Management has decided to charge a reinvestment fee of $500 fee. The committee feels this is within its mandate and fiduciary duty, and that it doesn't need a proposal.
Anyone who has strong opinions about this should meet with Management.
[Note by notetaker, also Management secretary: The person presenting at ACM spoke of it as being deposited to the reserve rather than operating funds, but I don't remember that being part of the discussion at the Management meeting.]
Safety & Security
During his presentation to us a few years ago, Officer Oliver recommended more lights
(which got implemented) and trimming bushes below two and a half feet and trees above eight feet. The SLFD requires us to keep vegetation trimmed away from the path, 20 ft wide by 14 ft high.
When residents have objected to their trees/bushes being trimmed back, the community has sometimes backed down. The community doesn't have mechanisms for enforcing its requirements, never mind agreements.
Could Safety do a walk-through of the common path, and identify what needs to be cut to meet the requirements? That way it clearly isn't Landscaping's whim, and reduces the blowback to them.
Review of Process Committee Split
After the first flush of enthusiasm following split, energy has faded.
An issue that is becoming clear is that Agenda Setters and Facilitators are their own islands, instead of coordinating who is the best person to facilitate a particular topic. In previous review it was suggested that they should meet together at least occasionally; hasn't happened. Facilitators aren't meeting separately to discuss improving facilitation, training etc. Facilitation is being done by less-experienced people, sometimes not up to the sensitivity of a topic, and institutional knowledge is lacking.
Agenda-Setters and Facilitators have a focus on the next meeting or two. It's valuable to have someone focusing on longer-term process issues, which is what Procedures can do. Budget for retreat was cut, but might look for free resources & training online.
Conflict Resolution has quit meeting. A conflict resolution group tends to get activated to deal with major conflicts, but could serve a valuable on-going role in heading off conflicts and getting the community training in dealing well with differences of view so they don't become conflicts. C.R. was part of Process only for lack of anyone else designated.
Maintenance
Take lists of tasks, prioritize, and seek volunteers for at least the top few. Anyone is welcome to put forward suggestions for work. Put a dollar sign on projects to motivate people. Re: comments on the length of the lists circulated recently by Management members; those are a fraction of total maintenance needs.
Silly Question Box
Where is Mary's field?
- South boundary: North of the east garden, starting at the north edge of the chipped path, on a line with the jog in the fence of the neighbors' houses on Cheyenne.
- East boundary: About two feet west of Lucy & Kaati's wall (cinderblock wall, red brick house).
- North boundary: The Bells' property line, a couple of feet south of the west side of the llama enclosure.
- West boundary: East of the spiral, even with the Bell's fence.
The field includes the llama run, their shed, and the garage. A strip about twenty feet wide from the Bell's fence and the field, the land is an alley owned by the city, ending at the wild area even with the south edge of the field.
Residents are welcome to come admire Mary's flowers.
How do you feed the llamas without getting killed?
Put the food on your palm, hold your hand out completely flat, and let them take it with their lips. Suitable treats: carrots, apples, celery, watermelon rind, pea pods, lettuce other than Iceberg, fresh young grass (no roots). Cut solid foods into bite-size pieces. They like Siberian elm leaves and the smooth bark from small branches (<15 ft). No onions, no bread, no other tree limbs.
They are very gentle, and they don't bite. They may kick when provoked, but they have soft feet, not hooves. They are shy about having their faces touched but may allow neck pats. They spit only when they feel threatened, like when a friendly well-mannered dog bites.
How many dishes are enough to do in the dishwasher?
Up to one rackful of dishes can be hand-washed in the sink and left in the rack for the next time the dishwasher is run. The 85-second cycle is too short to take off dried food. We don't have room on the counter to set more than two racks.
When first turned on, it takes twenty minutes to half an hour to bring the water up to temperature. Much of its energy use is per session, not per batch. It does multiple batches with the same wash water. Spaghetti sauce may require a change of wash- water during the session.
Scrape food into the compost bucket. Swish dishes in tub of water/detergent and give a brief scrub to loosen stuck-on food before putting in rack. (The dishes don't need to be actually clean when they go in.) The wash cycle is 150F. The end of the rinse cycle reaches 180 F, which is hot enough for canning jars but not technically enough to sterilize.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 4:15 PM John Garrison
Hi all--
When it comes to enacting new fees, regardless of what it's called or the amount, Wacoho
Bylaws require 67% vote of the undivided interest to enact:
" 2.1 ... The Management Committee shall have the power to adopt and establish, with the advice
and consent of the Association as shown by a sixty-seven percent (67%) vote of the undivided interest
in the Common Areas and Facilities present in person or by proxy at a meeting duly called, by
resolution, such Rules and Regulations as it may deem necessary for the maintenance, operation,
management and control of the Condominium Project."
Thanks,
John
On Tuesday, February 25, 2020 5:35 PM Kellie Henderson wrote:
Subject: Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 02 23
Hmmm, that seems like an incredibly broad passage that could apply to literally anything, not
just fees. We (outgoing management team) enacted a late fee w/o that threshold so i dont see
how this is different.
(For the record, if the community wants to discuss this fee together, let's do it, i just dont think
that passage mandates us to do so)
Kellie
On Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:31 PM, Kay Argyle wrote:
RE: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 02 23
I would say that, yes, that passage does mandate a formal proposal for a reinvestment fee. I
wish I'd remembered it during the Management meeting.
What for/when did we do a new late fee? The only two late fees I can think of are the $25 for
late monthly fees, which dates to the early 2000s, and $5 per month if the 2012 special
assessment wasn't paid off within two years. They were both enacted by proposal.
Kay
Events
Saturday Feb 22 is Renae's birthday, everyone invited to party at c.h.
National Cohousing Open House Day is Sunday April 26.
The 2021 National Cohousing Conference will be in Madison, Wisconsin.
Announcements
Cohousing Assn webinars, go to cohousing.org, called Simple Series. January webinar is $20, or talk to Vicky, Marina, Kathy, or Linda R who purchased a copy. Next on Feb 22 is Affordable
Cohousing. Katy McCamant intro.
Last year we donated $445 to cohousing.org, eleven donations ranging from $20 to $100. Can we beat that record this year? Vicky is passing around a pledge sheet.
Committee Reports
Underutilized Spaces. Mirrors in gym are more solidly attached.
Management. Encouraging people to sign up for projects from list or let us know if you see something to be added to the list.
Shout-outs. Stemware racks in kitchen. Organization of messy crafts room.
Some mismatched & odd glasses and other things on dining room table being disposed of. Either take home things you donated or make a case to Vicky for why something should be kept.
Facilitators. Need volunteer for Wednesday March 11. Kelly will facilitate Sunday the 23.
North Field. Meeting on Saturday 10:30 to organize shed and cleanup clutter outside.
North Garden Proposal
Written by Alex.
Difference from previous years is that future renewals will be at two-year intervals. This is the fifth annual proposal for the garden. Community always reserves right to change usage. Two year renewal may ease into indefinite approval in future.
Feel we do need some check on the process. If there are problems, could the community shut down the garden without designating another official usage?
For time being leave tool shed where it is. Still would like to move it this fall when figure out where and how.
Shed was built in place. Was agreed to as a "temporary movable" structure.
Shed is used to store tools. Allows less clutter in field, keeps tools safer. Theoretically could keep tools in garage, but in practice would often leave them out.
Chickens and ducks are managed separately and aren't covered by the proposal.
North garden group has planted some perennials, for instance raspberries, but they are at most low shrubs and can be removed if need be.
Straw poll. Most people prefer indefinite approval. Some prefer two years. North garden members are comfortable with two years. Decision, leave as two years.
Consensus, with amendment: If garden is reduced in size or stopped, members will cover crop the area. No stand asides.
Fencing between Units 18 and 20
Background. Currently the space from the 45o corner where the diagonal wall and back wall intersect behind #20, the west unit of the fourplex, #20, to the 45o corner of #18, the east unit of the duplex, including the space between the two buildings, is fenced as a single yard belonging to #20. This lack of division of the space appears to have been an agreement between the former owners of the units, whereas the community yard policy is that units share or divide the area between buildings.
A north/south fence runs from the 45o corner of #18 to the property line. The reminder of the space behind the #16/18 duplex is fenced as one yard. The duplex was originally owned by a mother and daughter, and a shared yard made sense.
Thus Cheryl has no backyard that isn't shared with another unit.
Issue: Use of the shared duplex backyard by the dogs is problematic for its other uses.
Layout of Fences. Cheryl is proposing (a) a new north/south fence between the fourplex and duplex, coming forward to Cheryl's side door, with a gate between yards; (b) replace the trellis fence on east of Lynda's yard with a solid fence, and (c) move the east/west fence between the buildings forward/north; creating an enclosure behind and partly east of #18. Cheryl will pay for the changes.
It would be more structurally complicated to leave the fence between fourplex & duplex where it is. Since Annalise's dogs don't live here, could possibly take down the side of the fence in front of her yard.
Having a space to let a dog go outside without having to leash the dog and put on shoes and coat makes life easier for the owner and pleasanter for the dog. Accessing the new yard through the patio door instead of the side door, the dogs would still be tearing up the shared yard. Adding a gate to the east/west fence and not bringing the north/south fence up to the side door would require the dogs to be on leash to get between the side door and the new yard.
Putting a fence between Cheryl's and Lynda's back would make Lynda's back area quite small. On the other hand, Lynda does have the entire common house lawn next to her.
Fence Material. The fence would be solid, but the same height and color as the lattice fences. Cheryl's dogs are rambunctious and a lattice fence won't hold them.
Reinforceing a lattice fence with metal backing, e.g., chain link, would strengthen it but not resolve other disadvantages to lattice. Dogs bark more if they can see through a fence and are more likely to try to jump the fence. Dogs can climb fences, if they have anyplace to insert their toes.
The fence needs a solid base or the dogs will dig under it.
Surface. A different surface than grass is needed. Friends have used pea gravel. Wood chips would work. Cheryl will use whatever surface material the community prefers.
Gravel can never be gotten rid of.
Legal. Does having a fenced yard make the area a personal yard rather than community space? Legally it is still common area. At twenty years fences become legally permanent. Decisions about the trees are still totally community.
Since Annalise's house is for sale, now would be a good time to move the fence so the new owner doesn't regard the whole backyard as "theirs".
Green Space & Aesthetics. People like having open space along central path. #26 has a direct view of this area out kitchen window.
Putting shrubs in front of the fence would make it prettier.
Try to keep as much space green as possible. Area currently isn't "green space"; dogs have wiped out grass.
Fence between units is one of the few that is visible from the path.
Misc. Considerations. Cheryl would not have purchased a unit that didn't have a fenced yard.
Utility meters are in back yard. Do meter readers still need actual access? Water meters have radios.
See a trend to meeting dogs' needs rather than people's. Counter view, cats go all over, including into yards of non-cat people. Area has a big meter box, not especially attractive. Dogs facilitate bonds between community residents. Making yard more usable for
Lynda and her family is looking at neighbors' needs.
Don't think of it as a dog run, think of it letting Cheryl have a back yard she doesn't currently have.
Really appreciate Cheryl talking to Lynda and Annalise in formulating this proposal.
Decision: Cheryl will take feedback and redo the proposal for the next Wednesday ACM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PROPOSAL: Allow the North Field Garden Committee to:
* Continue use of North Field as a community organic garden for 2020
* Maintain the space for food production with renewal of proposal after two years, rather than annually, until Wacoho advises alternative usage. We seek only renewal of garden infrastructure and not that used for chickens.
*Keep Tool Shed in existing space with intent to enhance upkeep, and functionality.
Through a future collectively made decision by community, we seek to relocate shed in the Fall to a more accessible & aesthetic site.
Location: 1/8th acre field defined by a north-facing Wacoho property boundary fence, an alleyway to the east, a duck pen to the west, and a fire pit to the south.
Accomplishments since garden's inception:
* Community has deepened gardening and other skills using organic methods to improve soil-tilth, sow seeds, start plants and cultivate various crops.
*Hundred of lbs. of produce harvested for Wacoho residents & broader community.
* Enhanced access to nutritious produce, continued practice of community-building through food sharing, and exercised creativity whilst experimenting with diverse methods to manage skunk and earwig infestations.
* Widened paths for ease of mobility, incorporated more flowers for pollinators, and augmented aesthetics
* Increased participation = increased team-building and community buy-in
Proposal Pros:
*Strengthens Wacoho's engagement in local food initiatives as we share a wealth of high quality food with community
* A focus on accessibility, creative design and re-use (ie. using jungle-gym as trellis, home-made seed starting kits) and offering diverse projects for residents of varying skill level and physical capability enhances connections with neighbors, saves money, and builds sense of community-wide ownership
* Applying easier garden planning methods, improving task lists and formalizing a garden calendar will help simplify space maintenance and help with up-keep
* Passionate team dedicated to establish more leadership positions lighten the load and minimize burnout.
Proposal Cons:
* Challenges with earwigs and other common garden pests remain and may intensify since last year, however committee is dedicated to continue research, and field advice from local experts to best control pests.
* More bees from planting pollinator gardens may lead to more stings we strive to implement safety measures and protocols, ie: A bee-prepared kit in the toolshed.
* Moving/removing existing structures will be difficult and/ or expensive. Will likely require all-hands, neighborhood outreach, or hired hands to accomplish.
* Gardening can lead to messiness without proper planning, and assuring accountability from committee members
Amendment: If garden is reduced in size or stopped, members will cover crop the area.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Proposal: Add fencing to allow for dog run between Units 18 and 20
Author: Cheryl Keil, Unit 18
Version 1, dated 2/4/2020
First thing I want to clarify is that I will use the word "yard" a number of times throughout this proposal. I hesitate using this word because all of the land is Common Area and technically none of us have "yards" that are our own private property. But I don't know what other word to use, so bear with me.
The problem I'm trying to solve:
The way the fences on "Dog Row" are currently constructed, all other units besides 18
(Cheryl) and 16 (Lynda) have their own individual space behind their unit with a fence on the east and west border of their yard. Unit 20 (Annalise) has a fully enclosed yard. So does Unit 25 (Lauren). Unit 21 (Alex/Gary/Diana [owned by Hans]) doesn't have a fence on the south side of the yard bordering Hans's property, but there is a fence on the east and west border.
Lynda and I are the only ones on Dog Row who share a yard. And under normal circumstances this would be fine. But my dogs (Bert in particular) are very hard on this area. Bert has dug a number of holes in the yard. Plus, he runs so much out there that he's pretty much trashed the grass. I try to stay on top of cleaning the yard but sometimes life happens and I'm not as good as I should be. And as a result
* Lynda no longer enjoys being in the yard (I don't blame her) and her grandkids no longer can play back there.
* The dogs track a bunch of dirt into my house with their muddy paws as a result of the grassy area being trashed, and therefore my floor/house is impossible to keep clean.
* What used to be a really nice outside area is now pretty much destroyed.
We need a better solution so we can restore what was once a very nice, well kept space behind Units 16 and 18, while also allowing a mud-free, safe, enclosed area for
Bert and Abby to run around in.
I've drawn up some rough sketches of how the fences are all configured now vs. what I am proposing we could implement, based on some suggestions that Lynda recently made. I'll enclose each of them in this proposal. Note that none of these sketches are drawn to scale. They're just rough drawings to give an idea of what is being proposed.
Current Layout. This is what the yards look like today.
[See original for photos & drawings.]
Things to note:
1. There is quite a bit more common area allocated behind Unit 20 than there is behind
Units 16 and 20.
2. I have a side door that opens up into the currently unused/uncared for space between my unit and Unit 20.
3. There's a drain placed just off the northeast corner of my unit and a bunch of rocks that appear to have been deliberately placed around the drain all the way back through Unit 20's yard. I'm assuming that the rocks were placed here deliberately. I also assume I'll need to ensure the drainage system is not disturbed. (Can someone verify my thinking?)
Proposal: Reallocate some of Unit 20's yard to allow for a dog run that runs from just north of
Cheryl's side door to the back fence.
Lynda's actually the one who suggested this and it sounds like a great idea.
The existing fence line surrounding Lynda and Cheryl's yard would not be modified. The yard would become a "human only"/no Berts allowed zone. We would restore this backyard area to its previous glory.
See red line in image to the left. Fencing would be modified to allow for a long, narrow dog run just outside of Cheryl's side door to the south fence that borders Hans's property. The fence that defines the north part of the dog run would extend to the stucco on the west side of
Unit 20. Gates on the north part of the fence will allow access to the dog run and Unit 20's yard. (Do we also need a gate between the dog run and unit 20?)
Pros: Lots and lots of Pros. Too many to list.
Cons: Unit 20 loses some of the common area in the west part of the "yard". The north fence would be right over the drainage area I referred to earlier. I'll have to consult with someone to see how best to deal with that.
?
Here are some photos to help demonstrate what I'm thinking.
The northwest part of the dog run fence will be placed between the gas meter and my side door, and then ..
it will extend to just in front of the downspout that comes off of the roof gutter.
(Note: that will put this part of the fence in front of the gas and electricity meters. Do I need to contact the utilities to ensure this is ok?)
The east border of the dog run will intersect with the fence post identified in this picture.
Additional considerations:
1. When this change is made and Bert and Abby have their own designated space, I'm going to want to put some material in their dog run that is easy to clean up, and also prevents them from dragging in mud. My friends use pea gravel in their back yard and that has been a good solution for them and their dog. I'll leave it up to the community to decide what I should use.
2. I do want to be consistent with the building of the other fences in this area, in terms of the height and coloring of the fence. However I do ask for one exception. Lattice fencing has been used in the fences separating the yards of Dog Row. I'd really prefer to not use this. It's not sturdy enough to contain Bert; therefore leaving the fence vulnerable to damage and Bert vulnerable to getting through the fence and into the adjacent yards.
3. Related to point #2 above, I'd like to replace the fence on the east side of the yard that I share with Lynda. It's pretty torn up and I've had to fasten 2x6 boards to secure areas of the fence where the lattice is compromised.
This is the section of fence that (because of broken lattice) Bert escaped through when he ran out in the road and got hit last summer. I put the 2 x 6 boards up to prevent future escapes.
Due to his love of squirrels, Bert has jumped at/against this section of fence and broken some of the boards in the lattice. I've drawn red lines in the picture where the lattice is broken.
I will want the dog run fence to have a pretty solid base to ensure Bert cannot dig under it.
5. I will also want concertina wire strung along the top of all borders of the dog run to ensure Bert cannot jump or climb over it. (Just kidding on this one. I know I'm making Bert sound like a monster, but he's actually adorable. He just has a lot of energy.)
6.
I have reviewed this with Lynda and Annalise and both have approved the proposal.
Events
February webinar is on affordable housing.
Next weekend the common house will be full of teenagers from the international exchange program. Friday night girls will sleep downstairs, boys upstairs, several adult chaperones.
Saturday night potluck & presentation. Kids go home Saturday night.
Announcements
Mary brought several examples of shoe traction attachments that can prevent falling on ice.
Colleen Dinsdale, first owner of #19(?), died January 19. Passed around a card for Donna.
Committee Reports
Underutilized Spaces. Getting the mirrors hung, gym in workshop, shelf for solar panel monitor. Found manuals for equipment that needs a little work.
Committee Support Team. Last chance to sign up for a committee before the list is published.
Welcoming. Transitioning so Vicky can focus on Management.
Management. Schedule of meetings first and third Mondays at 7:30. Victor is President, Joe is Treasurer, and Kay is secretary.
Fence behind #9 Input for Proposal
Concerned about usefulness of discussing this without the Garrisons present.
At 12/11 meeting, the community said we wanted to get this settled. Next two meetings were already booked for budget discussions; this was the first meeting available. John is working, Linda WG is out of town; they didn't ask for the discussion to be rescheduled. Not helpful.
Do we want to postpone the discussion? Do we want to edit the proposal at this meeting to solve the problems people see in it?
Clarifying Questions & Concerns
- The proposal doesn't address the concerns raised at the December 11 ACM or the Prices' concerns.
- Under WCCA approved modifications', item #5. Which patio does this refer to?
- Language implying this is merely codifying existing agreements is not appropriate, e.g., clarifying agreements, items under WCCA-approved modifications' have not (yet) been approved.
- A number of statements are inaccurate, e.g., the berm was not in its current location when the unit was purchased.
Laid the outer patio without consulting the community. Don't have a problem with the result, just the lack of process. The fact that other people have done things without proper process doesn't excuse more things.
Wouldn't feel comfortable going into other people's yards' even though they aren't fenced.
Does the fence really make a difference?
Feels like a lot of blaming & finger-pointing.
Space seems excessive for a dog.
Appreciate the language that it doesn't constitute an easement.
Need to see something that everyone is comfortable with; seems like this proposal focuses just on what the Garrisons want.
Need to set a deadline. By a specific date, either the community is happy or the fence comes down.
Despite what the agenda said, the proposal has been distributed long enough to call for consensus. Seems clear that as-written it would not be approved.
Call for consensus: blocked -- unanimously.
- Doesn't fulfill our values on shared space.
- Goes against the spirit of community, working together, cooperative culture.
- Too many inaccuracies. No understandings to be acknowledged. Understandings can be requested at this time.
- Doesn't address concerns of the community or the neighbors expressed at the 12/11 meeting.
- Didn't work this out with the neighbors as we expected.
- Not the right culture for our community.
- Sets a precedent that a person can do whatever they want with common area and ask forgiveness later.
- Cohousing is about communication and sharing.
- Delicate, everyone needs to be at the table.
- Needs the buy-in of the neighbors. Once the neighbors are okay with it, we can talk about it.
- At this point, inclined to put violations of process under heading of painful lessons; just want to settle the matter, but this proposal doesn't.
- Not modified to take concerns into account.
It would be a strong incentive to get an acceptable proposal to say the fence comes down until there is an approved proposal.
For Wednesday February 12 ACM, the deadline to submit a proposal would be 2/5.
Sunday February 23 ACM, February 16. Deadline to distribute the proposal for March 11 is
March 4.
Proposal needs to be acceptable to the neighbors on either side and to address the concerns of the Dec 12 ACM.
Straw poll:
One vote. fence comes down now and doesn't go back up until approved.
Nine votes. they have two weeks to produce a proposal or fence comes down.
Two votes for four weeks.
One votes for six weeks.
Decision: In the absence of a proposal being approved by or before the March 11 ACM, the fence will be taken down the next day, March 12th.
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:13 AM Renae Skordas wrote:
Just wanted to make note that the "Decision: In the absence of a proposal being approved
by or before the March 11 ACM, the fence will be taken down the next day, March
12th" was not done by consensus; the whole community was not offered the opportunity to
provide input regarding how to proceed with the perceived lack of progress by the proposal
discussed on 01/26.
The straw poll to block the proposal was for a variety of reasons. My perception was that
many blocked the proposal because units 7, 9 and 11 did not come to an agreement prior to the
proposal being submitted. This left at least 1 of the units feeling like their concerns were not
being addressed. As such many in our community would not feel comfortable approving a
proposal that left even one of our neighbors feeling like they were not heard.
I did vote to block in the straw poll because I want to keep the concerns of all effected in
mind. I did not vote to block in order to steamroll over the needs and concerns of unit
9. Putting a deadline on the removal of a fence that has been in place for at least the two years
that I have been here seems hasty and dismissive of what unit 9 needs for their dog over the
next several months.
The point that "It would be a strong incentive to get an acceptable proposal to say the
fence comes down until there is an approved proposal" can be equally, but oppositely
applied to all parties. What incentive is there for unit 7 to come to an agreement with unit 9 if
the fence will be coming down in 6 or less weeks with or without reaching a common ground?
When I objected to the removal of the fence at the ACM, the justification was trust. But why
should I apply my trust to one party more than the other? Both units contribute to our
community and improve the quality of life here at wacoho for all of us.
I'd like to continue to operate from the position that all our neighbors are kind and inherently
good and trustworthy people. At the very least I want to preserve what is essential to co-
housing, consensus, without further eroding the connections of our current community. Can
we please allow the community to provide input for how to proceed in the absence of an
agreement between units 7, 9 and 11?
Better yet can units 7, 9 and 11 figure it out? As worded in the minutes "At this point,
inclined to put violations of process under heading of painful lessons; just want to settle
the matter..."
Renae
#6
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:50 PM Marina Price wrote:
Renae,
I appreciate your thoughtful reply. If I understand you, you are concerned that taking down the
fence would give us (me, Scott, Anne) no incentive to work toward a compromise with the
Garrisons, just as having the fence up this whole time has given the Garrisons no incentive to
compromise with us.
I would like to offer a different perspective. For nearly a year now, the Garrisons have had the
opportunity to offer a compromise or work collaboratively, yet have shown little interest in
doing either. Even the proposal, (which was initially submitted to management, rather than to
the community) lacked any compromise, and the Garrisons refused to talk with any of us,
despite repeated efforts.
If you believe that in taking away the fence, we would have just as much incentive to let this
drag on without meeting or compromising, I'd like the chance to prove you wrong. I believe
community requires a high degree of cooperation, and I'm committed to doing that work.
Since the deadline is 3 ACMs away, though, it really should not matter. There is more than
enough time to work this out, and like I said, we are willing. But given this history of non-
cooperation, the deadline is a just safeguard, an additional incentive for the Garrisons to work
with us to craft a solution we can all live with in a reasonably timely manner, that's all. Worst
case scenario is the responsibility to compromise will shift to us. Hopefully, it won't come to
that, but if it does, I promise to go into it in the spirit of cohousing, to meet as required, and to
ask for community assistance if needed.
The truth is, any one of us could remove the fence at any time, legally speaking. We have gone
through the proper protocol and would be within our rights. But we have not resorted to that
option, trying instead to work toward a cooperative solution, all for the sake of community.
Given how long this has been going on, I don't think a deadline that is a month and a half away
is too much to ask. This has taken such a toll on us, and on the community, and dragging it out
indefinitely is not helpful. It's time to wrap it up.
Marina
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 2:20 PM Renae Skordas wrote:
My concern was that the group who attended the ACM on 01/26 made a decision that effects
our neighbors without a proper chance for the whole community to provide their input.
I understand that the proposal is in the hands of the community now. In that spirit I think the
whole community should be allowed to provide consensus on how to proceed if an agreement is
not reached and what deadlines and actions should be in place.
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Friday, January 31, 2020 3:51 PM WCGG on behalf of Kellie Henderson wrote:
Caveat: I wasn't at the ACM on Sunday and as a former part of the mediation team for this issue,
I want to steer clear of further involvement in this.
It's always trying when we try to come to conclusion on something and then, after the fact,
someone says they never liked a decision that was made, but they didn't voice concerns until
after. For that reason, I need to take the time to say now that I agree with Renae, this seems like a
lot. A reminder that a lot of 2019 was spent on mediation, I don't think it's fair to say that it's an
objective fact the Garrisons haven't cooperated, and I think removing the fence at this point is
pretty extreme. Additionally, it's not a demonstrable fact that anyone can remove the fence so
let's steer clear of throwing such statements out.
For what it's worth, I see the issue is that the community is not willing to do the real work of
sitting down and deciding what enforcement looks like. So when things got real (as the kids say)
last year, things were pushed to management without any guidance or precident to work with.
Not to be dramatic, but that was extremely trying and led to my personal state of burnout right
now and I'd like to avoid putting anyone else through that in the future.
Obviously, we must do both- handle the fence issue in front of us and decide on how to move
forward with violations in the future. But it seems overkill to sit on the fence issue for 2-3 years
and then act like the fence is the end of the world and must come down because we dont' like a
proposal. I understand the need to inject some urgency into the matter if you feel the Garrisons
are stonewalling this process, but this feels ugly.
Did anyone take on my suggestion of editing the proposal (that is now in the communit's hands)
and compiling them into a proposal the community is happier with, and then presenting that to
the Garrisons?
Kellie
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Rebecca Smith wrote:
Hey all,
I don't have time to write a long email- I just wanted to say that I 100% agree with
Renae's take that putting a "get consensus or take the fence down in six weeks" is
a kind of unreasonable request.
Also, I think the point about incentives is extremely well taken. If the fence is
coming down in six weeks unless a very contentious issue is solved by consensus,
I can see a clear incentive for someone who wants the fence to come down to
block any proposal that keeps it up.
-Becca
PS: Yes I know that would be an invalid block, but I've heard people argue that
pretty much anything under the sun is in the best interest of the community, so I'm
not sure how we'd enforce it.
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:43 PM Cheryl Keil wrote:
I also am in agreement with Renae. Given the polarizing nature of this issue, I can see a strong
possibility of not reaching consensus on a proposal by mid March and I don't like the
ultimatum-ey "reach consensus by 3/11 or else" tone of Sunday's decision.
I feel like as long as the Garrisons are continuing to work in good faith to create a proposal that
the community can agree upon, there is no need to threaten to remove the enclosure.
Cheryl #18
Re: [WaCoHo] minutes ACM 2020 01 26
On Friday, January 31, 2020 5:47 PM WCGG on behalf of Marina Price wrote:
Well, hopefully it won't come to that. We have six weeks to hammer out an agreement, so
fingers crossed that we can wrap this up in that time.
In that spirit, I am happy to start on the more inclusive proposal as soon as possible, and hope to
hear from the Garrisons soon, so we can get that started.
Marina