Minutes of All-Community Meetings, 2004

From: wacoho on behalf of Hans G. Ehrbar

Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 11:44 PM

To: WaCoHo

Subject: [WaCoHo] Belated ACM minutes

.

From: wacoho on behalf of Hans G. Ehrbar

Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:46 PM

To: WaCoHo

Subject: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes

Amy D, George, Heather, Hugh, Kay, Kervin, Laraine, Linda, Lynda, Mary, Mike A., Mike P, Mike W., Steve, Vaughn, Vicky, Vivian.

From: wacoho on behalf of Hans G. Ehrbar

Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:15 AM

To: WaCoHo

Subject: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes

Attending: Mike A., Stan, Hugh, Linda, JoAnne, Vaughn, George, Carol, Vivian, Jennifer, Heather, Becky, Lynda, Gwen, Sterling, Laraine, Amy D., Kevin, Wim, Naomi
Facilitator: Mike P first half; Linda facilitated second half participating brainstorming session.

From: WaCoHo on behalf of Vivian Garcia

Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:19 PM To:

To: WaCoHo

Subject: [WaCoHo] ACM Minutes

10/2 is what I remember too.

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Wednesday, June 23, 2004

Committee Reports

Common house

: Kay purchased Corelle plates and bowls to replace broken (mostly before the flooring went in), plus 5-oz "berry" bowls for dessert or small servings. Cost was about $170.

Landscape

Committee will concentrate on the northwest face of the common house, between the mailroom door and the corner. Requested: Review who is responsible for what areas. Kay will locate that and publish it.

Maintenance

Gwen is stopping down from maintenance coordinator. Mike A will join maintenance. Thanks to Gwen for supervising garage cleanup work party.

Management

Parents and Maintenance Committees have both spent almost their entire budgets, halfway through the year. Additional expenses above budget must be approved by the community. Linda passed around a report showing the expenditures.

Riding mower, ad hoc

Mary found Consumer Reports review, will copy and post in mail room. Amy H talked to Eldredge Sales & Service and got recommendations. Instead might get a lawn tractor with attachments for snow removal or other jobs, more money but more versatile. Decision isn't urgent.

Discussion about Truck

During the last discussion about the truck, it was decided to revisit the decision in six months (that's now). The truck insurance is due June 25, and inspection in a few months.

It would probably be cheaper to rent a truck when needed than to own one. Several members expressed satisfaction with the concept of the community owning a truck, a shared resource. Having a truck allows us to take advantage of free or cheap opportunities such as sawdust from the Nicholl stable or rocks from Big Cottonwood collected with a Minerals Permit. Thus if we got rid of the truck we would have extra expenses in other categories. A rental would have to be treated more gently, cleaned after hauling manure, protected when hauling rocks.

The truck is unreliable; it quits unexpectedly and restarts unpredictably. Should find out what it would cost to repair adequately.

Only members on the insurance can drive the truck, which restricts its usefulness. Some people have been driving it who aren't on the insurance. Possibly put laminated list of insured members in truck. Perhaps because of aviation background, Linda expected tighter control of the truck, knowing who has it, where they went, how far, and how the truck is maintained.

If we haven't made a decision before the insurance runs out again, we could just park the truck for the time being and let the insurance lapse.

Decision: Find out cost of necessary repairs to make truck reliable. Amy H will ask Steve's uncle, of Hyde Garage, to look at it and give us an estimate. Mary will check who is on the insurance and notify everyone and set up a mileage log. The community will pay for insurance for one month.

Discussion about Dining, Participation in General

People aren't signing up for meals. Make calendar more visible. Move it to mailroom, bulletin board between inner door and window, modify size to make it fit.

Potlucks are working well. It's nice to have a regularly scheduled event, easy to remember without checking calendar, can ask visitors to drop by. Need people to sign up for cleanup. Paper and plastic aren't particularly environmentally sound. Ask members to bring their own plates and flatware.

Is the committee structure still working for us? There isn't a lot of committee activity. When we discuss lack of participation, the people who aren't participating aren't at the discussion either.

How can active members participate more fully? Have more regularly scheduled events like potlucks (echoed by several people). Reminder notes on doors help. When a work party was schedule before an ACM, some people who attend work parties but don't normally attend ACMs stayed. Most people do participate, just can't make every event because of busy lives. Sometimes people just need to pull back.

Maybe raise assessment, and if you show up for work you get it back? Idea is frightening, some would resist. People participate in different ways, some less visible.

When everyone is doing as much as they can, why shouldn't we hire? It's not fair to let people with money buy out of work, not fair to people who don't have money and don't have time either. On the other hand, hiring either cuts the budget elsewhere or raises assessments, which is also hard on people without money.

We keep getting stuck at the same question of how much needs to be done, and can we realistically do it; if not, do we live with it undone or do we hire? Some people are much more bothered by certain undone jobs than others, get discouraged.

Need to work smarter not harder. We are used to thinking on the scale of a suburban yard. We have almost six acres now and need commercial equipment.

Let's not focus so much on what isn't being accomplished that we forget how much does get done. Some people respond to appreciations. Renew practice of periodic review of accomplishments; list was staggering when we did it before.

Give question to Coordinating Committee to set up a structure for ACM discussion(s).

Sterling is considering setting up a childcare, either a few children in her home, or more in the common house. Age three to four, Waldorf style (creative emphasis). Kitchen cannot be used commercially. Would have to look at liability issues. Sterling knows she would need license and insurance. Noise of kids playing on the lawn would impact nearest neighbors.

Closing round robin: What keeps you here?

addendum

From: wacoho on behalf of Vicky Wason\Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 AM

To: WaCoHo

Subject: RE: [WaCoHo] minutes, ACM June 23, 2004

Dan will also be on the Maintenance Team: Mike W. Mike A. George and Dan are not with Maintenance team. Mike W. had spoke with Dan before the ACM but didn't get that information to anyone before the ACM. Mike A is still interested, so if it is OK with everyone, a team of 4 will be in place.

Vicky

From: WaCoHo on behalf of Naomi Franklin\Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:42 PM

Subject: Re: [WaCoHo] minutes, ACM June 23, 2004

Sorry I could not be there: conflicting forum on US renewal of nuclear weapons development, an issue that gets priority with me.

A statement in Kay's excellent minutes got my attention:

It would probably be cheaper to rent a truck when needed than to own one. Several members expressed satisfaction with the concept of the community owning a truck, a shared resource. Having a truck allows us to take advantage of free or cheap opportunities such as sawdust from the Nicholl stable or rocks from Big Cottonwood collected with a Minerals Permit. Thus if we got rid of the truck we would have extra expenses in other categories.

!!!! A rental would have to be treated more gently, cleaned after hauling manure, protected when hauling rocks.!!!!

This is exactly the attitude that makes me leery of owning community property. If each user does not treat community property as if it were his own, we have a problem.

Naomi

Addendum

From: WaCoHo on behalf of Kay Argyle\Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:43 PM

Subject: RE: [WaCoHo] minutes, ACM June 23, 2004

If each user does not treat community property as if it were his own, we have a problem. Naomi

Having seen how Mary treats her car, you suggest she treat the community truck as if it were her own? Naomi, what are you thinking? ;)

This common expression -- "treat it as if it were one's own" -- assumes that people shepherd their own resources but carelessly exploit any resources to which they have only temporary access (because borrowed, public, or wild). All too many people of course do operate this way, hence the tragedy of the commons -- and the reluctance of booklovers to loan their books.

It seems to me the community value should be the opposite. A resource to which I have only temporary access belongs to somebody else the rest of the time -- all the ethics of taking turns, sharing, and borrowing apply. I have an obligation to leave it in good condition, or replace it, and I mustn't hog it.

Each user should treat community property as if it were NOT his own -- that is, respectfully.

Kay

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Saturday, June 12, 2004

Truck

The timing of this discussion and decision is determined not by insurance but by the inspection date. Inspection will be around 40 dollars, if everything workes well. We think inspection is up on August 1st or so.

Big issue is reliability.

Vaughn: Tree Utah we had to put a few 100s dollars in every time we took an old truck to inspection. We could just take it in and see if we would have any major expenses.

Kevin: It just doesn't get used that much, it is not worth 1000 just for insurance a year.

The 20 times it gets used per year this costs us $50 each use just for insurance.

You can go to Home Depot and rent a truck for an hour or so for $20.

Right now mostly used for landscape items, manure etc which we could not put on the Home Depot trucks.

Vivian is not using the truck because she cannot drive a stick.

Lynda concerned about us making a decision without Mary and Kay and Michelle around. Michelle wants to haul rocks.

We should put people on notice that we may have to get rid of the truck on emissions.

Another problem iwth the truck is that not everybody is on the insurance. Who has the list of people who can use the truck? Apparently Vicky does.

Kevin: Instead of keeping the truck we should set up a community fund towards rental of equipement, etc. You can get reimbursement without having to write a proposal etc.

When the valve broke the thing is to get it done. There are other maintenance type projects where we want people to do it and get it done.

Mike A. That is a good idea. Will also tell us what the truck will be worth at the end of the year.

Kevin will write up a proposal.

No decision on truck until we decide on Kevin's proposal.

Weed Control

Vinegar works, would ok for cracks between the bricks.

There are a lot of weeds out in the CH lawn. It would take a long time to pull the weeds out of the lawn.

Lynda: Vinegar in a spray bottle to spray the weeds.

Mike A. I was thinking of using weed and feed. We could try it with vinegar though.

Vicky: Animals and children are tracking through that weed n feed.

Kevin: we have a lawn in back yard, and perennial shrubs in front.

We are dedicated in organices, have experience on newly cultivated areas.

Grass is a monoculture, this is a difficult thing to do. Must create conditions where it likes to grow.

In our backyard we use an organic product by gardens alive in the fall, fertilizer which is a suppressant of other things. It is a very nice grass yard, although it does have some clover and dandelions

To my knowledge gardens alive is organic. Releases slowly over time.

Occasionally if we see something we don't like to pop that weed with a fork. It would take some committment.

We have seen a dramatic decrease in investment by community members into the community. I think it is perfectly appropriate to charge these people. People who do not want to get involved and moved here, we should charge them $60 a month, this is 4 hours at $15 and hour a month.

Front has perennials. On berms there have been efforts to weed, a lot of spraying of roundup on the berm, but nothing planted, therefore weeds come back.

Amy sprayed vinegar, highly alkaline soil, is a good thing. Thistles come back right away.

After cultivating an area plant buckwheat and etc.

Roundup or any other non-organic weed killer is toxic, expensive, and has no staying powwer. Roundup puts toxins into the soil, do it every year, they get you hooked.

Naomi: Roundup is of very limited time length, great advantage because it goes to the underground roots, that is why the roundup is sensible, it got out the whitetop.

Roundup is specific toxin for plants, has a certain savvy to it.

The other thing that makes our fight more difficult is spray cover. The business of spray watering everything is a terrible approach.

Vicky: I think our lawn around the common house is acceptable. When I visit a condo where the lawns are perfect, I would not want my children to play there because this is a toxic community. Intrigues when Kevin told me he is using something organic.

Kevin: I spend time to get dandeloins out of the lawn They have different prodeucts, most cost effective one is fall.

Vinegar: kills the grass I have a jug of vinegar, weeds are dead but you still have to yank them out.

Mike: there are so many weeds you could spends 2-4 hours every day and they are still here. What bothers me is some of the berm area. I just don't have that much time to spend on weeds.

Laraine: I like to do things when other people are around, that is very energizing.

Joanne: didn't notice that there were many weeds in the CH lawn. I don't like thistles.

I like to how the East driveway looks, always felt sorry for Mr Acroman with his little perfect garden having to look at our berm. Now it looks great after we did the weeding.

I am affected by how it looks when I drive in.

Mike A. A lot of the place looks not only weedy but unmaintained.

Even with the weeds in the grass out there it looks better after it is mowed.

Someone asking Kevin: How much is the annual cost for the organic stuff?

Gardens alive is distributer of organic gardening. We spend $20 for two applications very small patch of lawn. Maybe $150 might do the area of CH.

seems to increase health of the lawn, keep down the weed. Should be done in combination with a cultural approach, i.e., get out there with popping the weeds.

We do it, but we do it very little. One year we had to do a lot. Right now it needs not much.

Other plan would be hire a chemical company Chemlawn before the big snow.

Chemicals to kill the weeds, phaseout approach.

Mike A: Each year if we don't do anything there will be more weeds out there.

Kevin: this is called integrated pest management, process of transitioning into organic maintenance. It is recognized as a way to move away from chemicals.

Everyone who has pets and kids, we need to know how long everybody has to be off the lawn etc.

Realization that an awful lot of people are not putting work time. Discussion that people put money in. Either so many hours or so much money. But this is another discussion for another time.

Naomi: I'd like to see committment towards correcing the undesirable thing with the sprinkling instead of drip system.

Vucky: I think there is support to converting.

Novody is opposed to having a drip system on the berms.

Relatively expensive up front. it is not a great investment.

Could you come up with a commercial bid, well that is the amount of labor and money we need to invest.

We have had bidders before, they don't get the picture here.

Is Stan interested?

Naomi will approach Stan since she sees him all the time. Get a couple bids for both berms.

Lawnmower

Vaughn has burned out our nice little lawnmower with mowing the South field.

Lynda: I see how many hours Vaughn is spending, how quickly it grows back.

Hugh: can we attach a plow too?

Vaughn: if there is a snowstorm, to shovel the central pathway, to convert into a snowplow, would be a good idea.

Mary did a little research:

Consumers report one lawn mower at Walmart $1800 is very good.

Vaughn: I don't mind doing the orchard and lawn mower, but feel incompetent regarding which are the best ones.

Naomi: how is this equipment maintained. Is there someone who is looking after the machinery?

Kevin: I have been the person who has been aintaining the other mowers. I want to say several points.

(1) Riding mower does not eliminate th need for a hand mower

(2) the $189 mover is dead now, it is getting a lot of use and abuse. They only last 3 years is not surprising, they are doing the mowing for 26 families. This is a kind of expense, we are going to wear another lawnmower every three years.

(3) I agree that some sort of mower is necessary. The landscaping firm have mowers where you could stand on. Another kind is a tractor.

Joanne: certain companies makes reputable products. The Walmart mower is by Stanlay Costco had one for 1000 also a good name.

Naomi: big investment into something we are not prepared to maintain.

What if the community says we are going to maintain it? I wouldn't believe them.

Lynda: if we purchase a new one it should not be bad.

Steve H. The kind of mowers they sell at home centers are designed for the yard. They are coing to burn out too if we do the weeds and sticks. Don't know if they would be up for the sticks and weeds and root and rock.

Lynda: looked into this because of conversation about goats one year ago.

Tractor with mower attachement have ratings how big sticks they can handle, some are designed for simply lawns. others are heavier duty.

It is pertinent that we choose something that is appropriate.

Laraine: larger more sturdy mover will last longer.

We need something that is industrial, serve our purposes, but also need maintenance.

We have deeply rooted plants in there which will grow also late in the season.

How about a contract with Eldridge to maintain our machines.

making a major investment without maintaining them is nutso.

Mike: spent a few years in maintenance of computers. We used preventive maintenance. Change oil in car, preventive maintenance is very easy to do. That is what we will need to do.

Hugh: based on past performance, there may be one or two people who think about doing it.

Better if we have a contract.

We will pay more. On the other hand, we pay more if we buy it and do not maintain it.

Community property: someone else is going to do it, or it falls on somebody to do it.

General will is more in direction of a contract. Contract should involve preventive maintenance.

Is somebody going to mend the present mowers? Eldridge for maintenance we need a vehicle to transport them. We still need a smaller mower. Take them down. Myste has a small electric mower, not much use unless someone has a longer heavy-duty cord. Lynda has a 40-foot orange cord.

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Wednesday, May 26, 2004

Check-In*. *Everybody said something they were greateful about

Announcements

Gwen: meal tomorrow night.

June 4, 4-8 party for OC class kids and parents, cohouser invited, Heather is responsible.

Bells, our neighbors north of the Llamas, is looking for someone to chicken sit 5 minutes twice a day. Someone asked: can we get them for dinner? They sometimes participate in the buying club.

Linda: for sale of the house: (1) think seriously about people you want to move in, now is an opportunity.<2>(2) Linda is asking permission to defer rent and condo payment until home is sold. Everybody gave their thumbs up. Will work out details with management.

Kevin talked to our neighbor south on Cheyenne, and asked if they needed help with anything. Their answer was that cohousers with a dog have allowed their dog to poop into his yard.

Short discussion about the extraordinary ACM last Thursday

Heather: perhaps we did not give enough time for this discussion. Linda talked to Tucker. Tucker accepted it. In our view it was not the best place for Fred as well as for us.

Michelle feels bad about our turning them down because of one isolated incident, without talking to the parents, instead of discussing with parents if it can be made to work.

Others said that we discussed it with the parents a lot.

Steve: It was her own grandchild. Had it not happened to her grandchild, if something had happened to something else's child, she would feel really bad.

If people want to talk about it later they should stay on. (There was indeed a discussion after the ACM with Linda, Mary, Kay, Michelle, and Hans; but no notes taken.)

Progress reports

Kids room: Michelle working on mural with little kids, background. Gracie painted her feet green and painted with her feet.

Garden shed: waitin for the money.

Storage units: done, putting wheel stops in today.

Landscape

weeding parties, please show up!

Safety: Kevin put up lights.

Process

facilitator needed, we need a broader pool. People who want to facilitate should tell Heather, there is a sign-up at the bulletin board.

Heather: Process committee has not met for five months.

Gwen wants to give up her position on maintenance. Put on agenda for next ACM.

Termites: Helen has something in her house which produces Little gravely sandy things near the edge.

Base of the houses were treated against termites. R-control panels themselves are treated to be termite resistant.

Mike P. was not concerned. Right now the emphasis should be on identifying what it is, instead of ordering an exterminator. If Helen wants to get and Entymologist to come out this would be a good thing.

Storm basins need to get cleaned out again; dirt level reaches the pipes. Put it on the list.

Liaison for KRCL day in park. Saturday June 12.

Potluck this Sunday.

Nothing on memorial day.

Saturday June 19 date for the workshop cleanout. Please everyone go into the workshop garage and take out their personal belongings (bikes etc, except garden tools) and put into your individual storage units. Gwen will make fliers to remind everyone. If it is not out on the 19th then it will be considered community property and the community will dispose of it.

Kids and forts: They were going to use the corner in NE of wild area, to do leantos. Little palisade.

At parents committee it was decided that kids should get their heads together and decide what to do re fort. But apparently nothing has happened yet.

Swing set is almost on the fence line now.

There are a number of dead trees and lots of dead limbs.

We need a proposal how to maintain and perhaps even increase wild area, encourage new growth.

Some parents have the sense the the fort is not going to be this big an issue this year. The thing with a boys fort versus a girls fort is off the table.

They may still decide one day to build a fort. They don't want parent participation or supervision. The farthest away from any adults eyes as possible. The process is more important than the product. The only thing we should tell them is that it must be in the little palisade area.

Riding Lawn Mower

We had a long discussion last year and didn't get to a consensus.

We could consense to have a group research the issue.

Linda: we do not really have the money.

Mary: consumer reports just published an issue about riding mowers.

It feels too sneaky to make a decision on the mower today because there is no proposal. One individual ultimately blocked it last year. It is on the agenda but agenda was published only today.

If we replicate what we did last year it is like spinning wheels in the mud.

Vaughn and Mary are willing to do some research and write something up. They are the ad hoc lawnmower committee.

Field needs to be mowed more than once. Ralph, who owns the long strip south of the orchard, is mowing more than once.

Regular mower takes a longer path, it is very hard on our regular mower, it is beating them up.

We can't not try to do something because of the fear that people block.

We have ways to get past blocks.

Linda: If someone is blocking in something for their own reasons, they cannot do this, this is not consensus decision making.

Laraine: they have to have the reason that it is going to be detrimental to the community.

Gwen: suggest that we stop this discussion now.

Coordinating: one of our items to discuss is about consense and block.

Also garden chemicals: pesticides and herbicides.

Car breakin safety update: George's car is back. Vaughn's window was smashed twice. Honda civics are popular for stealing. Recommendation is to get a club.

Between the lights and having clubs. nobody has broken windows in

On sale at checker every two months, then they are only 15 bucks. Also a fake led thing with flashing lights pretending there is a car alarm.

Linda's car has been touched, and it has an alarm and stickers saying that it does.

Close: things that we do well

• Linda: we communicate really well.
• Michelle: outstanding unbelievable support.
• Laraine: we do generosity
• celebrate well
• good job at opening up windows and doors: make us conscious of the issues that are not being discussed. We out the underlying issues.
• Run pretty good meetings.
• Good potlucks.
• Listen to each other well.
• If anything goes out on email or so people are there to help and pitch in. It is easy to ask for people to help.
• Lynda: we manage the children well.
• Good job supporting each other.
• We do a good job of waiting and letting things grow, incubate. Somebody suggests something, sometimes we think a year about it until we move on it.
• Prolific emailing group.

Addendum

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Saturday, March 13, 2004

Announcements

Leaking roofs: during the wet winter some leaks may have shown up, and now is the time to fix them. Someone said: If it is swamp cooler related then it is the unit owner's responsibility, otherwise the home owners association. Gwen is going to have Kimball Roof come out and take a look at all the leaks. If you have a leak, contact Gwen at 978 2208, or forevermama1993@yahoo.com . Please do this ASAP. The Management committee will decide whether the homeowners association is going to pay for your leak.

Laraine still has the effects of a leak two years ago. Unclear if it came from the swamp cooler in the upstairs unit or from the membrane under the decks. The people who did the membrane two years ago went bankrupt without finishing the job. Apparently Steve Sternfeld knows more about this, but he was not here.

Mike W is buying some track hardware for closet doors 43 dollars per closet. If anyboduy is interested, contact Mike. Mike will buy them for you in a mail order, does not know if he is willing to install them. Wants to place the order Tuesday.

Michael Dusay is at Libby Gardner Hall, next to Kingsbury 7 dollars

Spring cleaning shheet went around asking which date is best. Cleaning jobs at CH or other common areas that are rarely done.

Mike P is running as a delegate for the Democratic Conventions, everyone should come and vote for him at Sorensen Center Tuesday Sep 23, 7 pm. Can just come in and vote and then leave again. Mike is trying to go to Boston convention.

Another announcement which was not made during the meeting but afterwards: our new neighbor Kevin Bell (who is doing an organic garden in his backyard which is just north of Mary's plot) is willing to collect your compost. He will give you a plastic container and collect it from your front porch on a regular basis. There is no cost, but he will use the compost for his own garden. Kevin has been involved in intentional communities in the past, with income-sharing, and he is interested in itneracting with ourt community.

Storage Units

Are not quite done yet, Don't totally fill them up yet. If you make shelves: either frestanding or nail or screw into the 2 x 4s, but don't nail or screw into the walls.

Overrun: total cost is now 29,000 instead of 26,500.

Mike called Crown for the capital fund, to pay for each of the unit's share of the storage units.

General contractor understands he needs to do the inserts for Jen adn Wasons' units where the top is opem.

Stucco: two more coats.

Keep parking 3 or 4 feet away.

Gutters are pretty much finished, workshop gutters are put up too.

keep the units unlocked.

Laraine: can you store boxes of clothes? They are more for garden implements, garden gear. Clothes maybe on shelves , once in a while you may have condensation dripping from the roor.

There are some lumber scraps around.

Hugh looked into the wheel stops. We will order them after everything is done.

Celebration

Deep cleaning the dojo and CH. A day, fun thing with music, perpare food for people to eat, like a barnraising thing.

Hans: I think these bells and whistles are not even necessary, workparties are usually fun, and everyone has agreed to do 2 workparties per year.

If anybody wants to do something with celebrations, contact Laraine.

Parents

Small kids' play structure on backporch will go behind Mike and Vicky.

Landscaping

A few limbs of the trees are overhanging the carports; they should be cut back, so that they won't come down and damage the carport roof.

Dog row fencing: what kind of fencing did we agree to? 4 foot high wooden privacy fencing, ok it with the neighbors, preserve open look to community. Not a 6 foot high i.

Safety

Dog thing: they have given their puppies away, they have kept Bishop contained.

Maintenance

Dryer is fixed

Liaison

March 17 7-9 Community Council meeting at Glendale Middle School.

Parents

Next meeting Tuesday 7 pm.

Coordinating

• participation as a storage bin topic.
• Consensus and blocking
• Herbicides and Pesiticides
• Riding mower.

Workshop

Gutters are done.

Spring cleanup for people moving their junk out of the garage. Do all this at the same day. A lot of the bikes may not even have owners. We should say: if you are not there and claim your stuff, we will dispose of it.

Ad Hoc Wildspace committee

Jen has to talk to Michelle.

Closing*.

Something you are excited about in Spring.

Raking

Everyone went out and raked the lawns aroudn the CH.

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Wednesday, February 25, 2004

Announcement

Vaughn: Oscar night is Sunday. Can someone fix the TV in the CH for this?

Progress reports

Storage Unit Construction

Mike: electrical is done, they had to put extra sensors in so that the storage units can have elecricity during the day.

framing is finished, Dean, the contractor, finished it off. Doors and locks are here, door guy either Thurs or Fri. They will tape two keys on the inside of the door.

Label one of the keys and give it to Joanne, she will add it to the key box.

Hope to get $500 - 600 credit for the unused aluminum sills.

Stukko guy made a bidding mistake. Seems to have been an honest mistake. He is $1800 short just to cover his cost. Will try to use the credit for the sills against this, see if the Crown organization has some funding.

They will stukko the thing once temperatures are in the forties. Try to match the color of the crown units. On East match the workshop.

Gutter people: need some wood to support the gutters. decision what sort of wood to use just treated fir is cheapest, looks like it has staples in it, other options to prime and paint white to match the metal, 500 dollars, or wrap in aluminum, 800 dollars.

Most of the wood would be covered by the gutter. Gutters must be quite lengthy, then downspouts diagonal past the end units into parking lot.

Talk to Kevin and Hugh and the crown people to make the decision of the wood.

East side: it is longer, gutter $490, treated wood 450 dollars.

Install it in West first, and look how it works out, before making decision on East.

Also received bid on workshop gutters: north end over the doors, gutter necessary because water ices up sidewalk, one gutter on north side and long downspout to parking lot, 150 dollars.

Including the west-facing shed roof, draining towards the orchard is 305 dollars.

It is the same people who do the fancy gutters.

Keep parking your cars 3-4 feet away, check your spots for nails, clean it up, Can use as soon as the doors are in.

Sometimes it might drip. Don't nail into the plywood, you have to put nails into the supporting beams.

Hugh looked into concrete wheelstops to prevent people from running into the storage units.

Jennifer: want to park close to the [storage] unit so that nobody can get into the units.

Hugh called 3 different places: price between 23 dollars and 17 dollars. Install them at 13:50 each.

Holes cast into them, reebar goes into the asphalt.

Can two of us lift them? very heavy six foot long concrete piece.

45 dollars for one made of recycled plastic.

Total cheapest option with delivery, 500 dollars. We may also want them on West of West parking lot to protect the irrigation.

On west side we want to attach them, because of snow plows etc.

Mike: is the irrigation supposed to be converted into drip?

Are we within our budget? No, because of the stucco thing.

We are still significantly below the other bids.

Vicky: it really changes your view. Jen: I was always a little hesitant, but am not going to complain.

Jennifer's is closest to the storage unit, other Crown units get much more privacy, can grow nice things against the stucco.

Took the aluminum out of the lights, lot more light now.

Committee Reports

Celebrations

oscar night.

CH furnishing: Mary and Kay bought more corel dishes for kitchen.

Landscaping:

Safety:

Process

has met and is bringing this ACM to you.

Dryer information: someone has extra nobs, who is that person. In the drawer in the kitchen on the right perhaps? Mary might know.

One drier is not producing much heat, was there a company we used before for these things?

Lori's Crown unit is painted. Gwen has the key.

Vicky: Linda will be moving in on April 1st, if that is a hardship she needs to come to management. Has nobody yet to buy her home.

Gwen: blinds were taken off, two are broken. I don't want to re-install them if the person moving in doesn't like them and will remove them again.

Closet doors need to be repainted.

Liaison committee

Walmart open in August or September. Jay Englebee was moved to tears because an Autozone store is moving into Northwest corner of Redwood and California. The developer has bigger plans, walkable shopping stripmallish thing, IHOP, some other places.

In May reasphalting and gutters on redwood road from North Temple to 21s south.

Joanne: Sound wall against those railroads?.

Railroad company may sell out to a developer if property values go up.

Welcoming committee

some calls, no people coming for the open houses for a very long time.

Parents

meeting Sunday at 5, before Oscar night at 6.

Management

Helen: we have invested the reserve account of $27,000 in Oppenheimer.

Next meeting the new crown members are going to be educated abot crown units.

Minutes will be posted on blackboard.

Someone said: Consensus-wise we had agreed that this much money should be a community issue. Twenty-seven thousand dollars, and it is my money too.

Helen and Hans: we told people on several occasions that this decision was going to be made, they are welcome to come to the management meeting. Indeed, Mary showed up for the meeting.

It is very low risk.

Social responsibility of the fund? Our adviser did not really know how to answer this, relied on the conservative investment strategies of the fund.

Coordinating: is there any storage bin? Highest rated thing from last meeting was (1) consensus decision making (2) participation (3)

Wild space discussion

did somebody write down if there were any decisions made?

Parent and landscaping were going to get together and formulate a plan about how to manage the wildspace.

Who is the landscaping facilitator: Kay and Stan.

Dining discussion

Concerns and issues around dining:

Joanne: People haven't been signing up to cook or eat. only 5 meals this month?

On occasions people signed up to cook, but then not enough signed up to eat.

Dining operates on very floating budget. People buy meal cards and get to eat 20 meals. Some point it looks like we have a bit of money. When it gets down to $100 joanne is worried.

People have bought meal cards, meals out there to be cooked, and not much money.

People often accumulate long debts on the backs of their meal cards, owe dining 60 bucks or so.

We put notices into peoples boxes, seems to be something that is easy to forget.

Kitchen is inefficient the way it set up.

Dining committee is inactive, Vicky went off, Helen, Joanne, Dan, Wim.

We don't get enough KP, that is a big part of it too.

Linda: calendar not getting up early enough?

A couple of emails were written by people who could not show up in person: Steve and Heather.

Someone: it is a community piece, is there appreciation in the community for the value of community meals?

Good place to start the discussion with.

Joanne: this is a core piece of cohousing.

Jen: whenever I have to define cohousing to outsiders I say, we eat meals together. I have a great appreciation for meals.

Vaughn: if we lose dining, we are losing an important significant portion of what cohousing is all about.

Becky: struggle to be able to cook, cleaning takes a long time, two hours, difficult with son at home.

Like the 3 people idea to clean.

Vicky: dining committee is really open to listening and tried lots of creative things. Need to hear whether the effort is appreciated. New energy, or some feedbck.

Ebb and flow? Now people will have more enthusiasm.

Have we tried having totally blank calendar?

Answer: we did in the erly days. That was done before. Need a structure, to help plan better.

We used to come to a meeting at beginning of month.

People are free to put dates up that work for them.

Suggested days are marked but everyone is free to sign up on the otehr days.

Clean up as you go along, everyone that comes does a little bit of cleanup.

A team of 3 people do all of it together, divy it up as they want.

One main cook, one helps both cooking and cleaning, and one is main cleanup.

Mike: reasons I haven't come to meals:

Lynne and Henry are on modified Atkins diet, don't like to eat this many carbohydrates.

For me, so many meetings during the week, when I do have a night off, like to do with Henry and Lynne.

Aestetics in CH: loud, kids running round, food tossed around, like cafeteria.

Putting screens up?

If we all want to come here and talk to each otehr about stuff. We ran out of things to talk aout.

Lynne is much more comfortable having one or two people over.

Sure other cohousings must have have had these issues and problems.

We used to hve special nights, Indian night, goulash night.

Gotten burned out on this, Steve too.

Someone: met a master gardner, talk about draught resistant plants. Hate to invite somebody if nobody is going to show up.

Mike: cut down on number of meals and make concerted effort.

Or meals on a consistent day, make Tuesday a meal day?

Amy: other community: Every Sunday at noon everyone gathers in the CH. Older community. It became a community thing. Nobody had to sign up, Free for all and habitualness, people who missed it would think on Sunday noon: I wish I was there.

Not easy to sign up, one forgets to sign up, or one can't come after all.

How were the bingo nights. Was not that much interested.

Game nights are more kid oriented.

If people want to have a quiet evening, call it adult only.

Kids really like the meals.

What if the pople that do clean and cook a lot, can approach others and say, ok, Becky, you are going to cook with me tonight, make it a little partnership.

Helen: personalized invitations worked with the retreat.

Joanne: it does help to have a team of people, a team of 3, te person who has cooked the most doesn't have to clean. This way you clean more while cooking.

Have fewer meals and put more effort into everything. Cooking and dining team keep things organized, kitchen organized, deal with ants etc.

Linda's list nice long list. Reflection of the maladies we have had in the community.

Last time I cooked the experience was very unpleasant: pots and pans were put on the shelf dirty, oil is rancid, refrigerator is cluttered with food.

Not having proper equipment, 2 hours shoppings, 2 cooking, setting up and serving, it is a lot of time, if not enough people sign up, you cancel.

Dining is reflection of our malady we have had as a community.

At least half of us are disconected. Why is it no logner valuable for us?

If you start feeling diconnected, then you stay home more, then not eating, not cooking. We get exhausted, it feels unfair, you have to be very active, dining committee is hard committee, a lot of work.

Jen: Can dining be rotated into monthly workteam?

Wim: reason I didn't show up, very busy but want to cook.

Coming to meals is a critidal piece of the community, if we don't have that we don't have a community.

Kitchen, refrigerator, is one part people would sign up for, didn't realize that this was part of the monthly chores.

Wort support task listing.

Everybody seeing that it hangs together, dining, work support, landscaping, it is a bigger issue than dining. Partidipation, work, trading jobs, personal responsibility, We really need to discuss that.

Otherwise we are just looking at the symptoms rather than the causes.

Community in Tuscon: everybody was on a cooking team, some communities are like that.

Other places it is more required.

We should figure a way how to have a meal at the nights of the ACMs; perhaps potluck or sack lunches.

We have a growing number of people in the community that are attending less functions.

There is still something we need to do. Energy is at low ebb.

Mike: very good turnout for retreat and ACM after retreat.

Wed meeting are less well attended. Very nasty winter, affects us as a group.

Republicans have been in power for so long. keeps Naomi very busy, Georgge, all busy in our lives, dealing with things.

We are not just a retiree community in Santa Fe where they have everything organized. Emeryville has no landscaping, some inherent kind of difficulties to overcome.

Week from Saturday, go into kitchen, throw stuff out, take a look at the the dining cards. Think about your lives week of next Saturday. Even if you can come for 15 minutes. Even if everyone does a tiny little thing.

Indoor work party, spring cleaning.

We need to draw in the larger community.

Vaughn: we need to really address participation with more of the community.

Saturday 8-5. (Joke).

More meat.

Are we not hitting the right balance. If there is a lot of pasta or bread, I probably won't sign up.

Would people attend more if we have a meat night, or a low carb night, etc.

Those who have special meal needs should cook and show others what kinds of meals they need.

Mike: they want to do the North node thing again. Steve and Lynne, before Steve leaves.

For the meals CH was very cold in winter.

Compensate for our cold committee meeting, by having 72 degrees for the meals so that it is warm and nice.

Common house furnishings, for the esthetics.

Somebody took the basket which I put in the mail room for the trash mail. Nice bins, disappeared. (another symptom of the malaise of the community.

Addendum

Minutes of All-Community Meeting, on Wednesday, January 28, 2004

Check-In Exercise: Everyone invited someone who is not there and gave a simple statement about his week, and hopes and expectations for the retreat.

Announcements

Linda is using a parking spot on Utah Street, because she has to drive Sarah's children, therefore her East spot is unused, if someone wants to use is.

Vicky is missing their wagon. Anybody seen it?

Next Sat 2/7 a shower for Steve and Amy, Vivian put up a sign-up sheet for hors deuvres. It's not Luch, it is 2-4. Everybdy should bring a little appetizer.

Someone asked (later in the meeting): which are the unused cars on the East parking lot? Answer: Kevin's and Wim's.

Progress Reports

Kids room: George finished the ladder.

Tree removal: waiting fr the spring.

Garden shed: on hold till spring.

East side parking safety: no action.

Storage Units: bid from a contractor whom Kevin saw working at the U and thought he did a good job. Framing etc for 11,000 steel doors 6900, optonal electric 22000.

Stukko 6200. Gutter topper people: gutter alog Utah storage units (400 or so?)

Decision from group: shall we include lights and plugs? This puts it above 25,000.

Hugh and Kevin should also look at it.

Contractor is licensed, everythig is to code, there is no buildig permit necessary because we are building exactly what is on the original plan that was approved.

Some people have stuff on their slab. Please remove it within next 10 days or so!

If Mike P. cannot find a management committee member Mike has authority to sign the contract.

Committee Reports

CH furishings: got new table, replaced step stool for the kitchen.

Landscaping

we still have to get limbs out to the curb. We can do this as a Saturday lunch hour activity. Show of hands who is willing to spend half hour durig Sat retreat lunch hour? Many hands rose up.

Friday Dinner 6-7, 7-8:30 games ad then dancing.

Sat morn 9 breakfast, meetings start 9:30-12.30, then lunch break, and more meetings 2-5. Sund breakfast 8:30, retreat 9-1.

Randy will facilitate Sat and Sun, apparently cannot come on Friday. Sat older kids rock climbing in morning, and either movie, planetarion etc in afternoon, will be with us for lunch. Smaller kids at Vicky's place (??).

Maintenance

dryer is written up. Leak in crown unit, number 15, swamp cooler, the water got turned on and started a glacier. Concern how we pay for that. Insurance coverage of Crown LLC?

Naomi may know, she investigated the community insurane. Mike A. is presently the insurace specialist from the management committee.

Liaison committee: Englebee crowd back in the community council. Randy Price got voted in as chair, then the others didn't wat to continue.

Welcoming

Crown unit, Decision shortly after the 15th, orientaion with Sarah.

Mgmt: voted in officers, Linda treasurer, Hans Secretary, and Helen President.

Hugh will be acting president in first 6 months. Mike is taking care of insurance, Hugh crown.

Find better ways to invest our moey.

Dininng has not met.

Crown: try to work on lease, adjust some writing in the lease, also annual paperwork.

Parents

only 3 people were there.

Truck discussion

Total cost for 03 was 1341 dollars, 02 $1246, insurane and registration was $990 dollars, year before similar.

Rest was maitenance, fuel, No info about mileage, how old the truck is.

Clarification: we pased the budget with keeping the truck.

Joanne: have't used it probably never will, do not want to deprive ayone who wants to use it.

Vaughn: it is breaking down. George said that it needs a driver who knows how to drive a clunky truck.

Mary has taken it out and it killed in the middle of the street. Happened 3 times, Kevin worked on it.

Heather and George took it camping, no problem.

Steve H.: has had gas tank trouble, Put tape on it so that we don't switch it to the wrong tank. Mary had it switched to the wrong tank: had gas in one tank, empty in the other. Hard to know what is done to it. Engine is worn, timing chais is loose. I have used it a few times.

Amy appreciates it around.

Linda this is what the community stands for, the kind of things we should explore more: Share resources.

Firt two times I took it out, both times it broke down.

Last weekend used it only if someone follows us.

Mary: no way to own it only 6 miles per hour. Insurance only for certain idividuals.

Mike: reliability is a big problem. If someoe owned it, this could make it significatly cheaper.

Gas leak, then it was fixed, gas made hole in asphalt.

Someone who had it as a personal vehicle would have dumped it.

Wherever it is parked, difficult for cars next to it because it is so huge. Let it go and look for a better running smaller truck.

Vicky: opportunity to act as a community. If we don't keep it it is going to the juk pile.

Keep it alive as long as we can. We could have done more work with insurane.

Vaughn: whoever is usig it the most, the persio who borrows it must have his or her own isurance, has drivers license, and has permission to use it is covered.

Reliability and hassle factor.

Whoever is usig it the most should put it on his or her insurance.

In favor of keeping the truck.

Get rid of a truck for a better truck.

How much money are we saving hauling manure etc.

Shall we buy a newer truck?

Kay: Mary's proxy is to keep owning the truck, It would be more ecoomical to go to Home depot and rent a truck there every time we need one, but having the truck we are doing thigs which we would not otherwise do. Mary is takig truck to get some compost tomorrow. Allow us to take advantage of sources like the stable where we can get things cheaper.

Get it replaced with something more reliable, not so big.

Lynda: we all bring different talents and strengths and abilities. Truck used most by landscape and buildig.

Even if not everyone is using it, those who are using it are using it on our behalf.

Our insurance cver us. We should manage the insurance better.

Mike A: the big issues are reliability, and insurance. Re reliability: Get a diagnostic. Re insurance: Mike A could conceivably add it to his insurance.

We do need to have a truck.

Naomi: time limit, checkup till August. Let's revisit the truck issue a month before inspection.

Hans: if we get it through inspection good, if we fail, we should consider getting rid of the truck. I wouldn't even spend the money for diagnostic on it.

Semi official truck committee of individuals who know about it.

Linda R: In aviation there is a maintenance discrepancy sheet. Anything that happens must be logged, however minor.

Mike: dagnostic is needed, condition for me putting it on my insurance is the diagnostic. Costs 60 dllars.

Thee should be a grup who talks the truck: Mary, George, Kevin.

How to beef up the log book.

Awareness problem with the logs.

Linda: he community has to be insured since it owns the truck. I an insured personally. The community has to have liability insurance if someone takes out the truck and the truck blows up.

If the community owns the truck the community can be sued.

Owner of vehicle is liable.

No final decision was made regarding the truck. It will be an ongoing issue discussed in the progress reports in the future. There is now an informal truck committee (George, Mary, Kevin? none of them was at the meeting.)

Storagge bin items priority discussion

Everyone should pick out the two or three highest priority choices.

Someone asked: are we going to be dealing with any of these in the retreat? Answer was unclear.

1. Wild space management / kids forts (11 votes)
2. Proposals or discussion decision making. (1 vote)
3. Job tradig, work getting done, minimum requireents. (11 votes)
4. Pets 1
5. Riding Lawnmower 4
6. Consensus decision makig / blocking 6
7. Pesticides, herbicites, organic gardening 5
8. Noorda spray paint discharge 2
9. Unit leasing rules / cohousig orientation. 0

Addendum