All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: What Is Working at ACMs; Requests for ACMs;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Discussions; Emergency Preparedness;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: common property use; consensus
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: HOA fees
Proposal: HOA fees proposal
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: emotional boundaries around yards, pets, other people
report
Decisions:
Topics:
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics: HOA Fee Discussion
Discussion: Consensus discussion; HOA fee brainstorming; Addressing HOA fee brainstorming issues; Description of four and five-column proposals; Other ideas for HOA fee structure; Addressing Kevin's comments;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Community Activities; Other Events; CSA; Flooring; Coordinating/Process; Decks, Drainage Etc; H.O.A. Dues Proposal (Management); Discussion;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Discussion: Hoa Dues Proposal;
Proposal: Monthly Assessments
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: HOA Dues discussion;
annual
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Management Committee Elections; Budget Discussion; Adjustments;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: Flooring Report; Band Benefit [Celebrations]; Community Liaison; Room Reservation Discussion/Clarification;
I began taking notes halfway through the last ACM when we realized no one was doing it. So this is not only late, but incomplete. I also had Sam climbing on me and did not get a list of who was attending. I apologize sincerely for being so late in posting this.
Isabella
the next topic was requests for [what should happen at] ACMs:
The above was what I was able to write down from our brainstorming session. Then I had to leave the room because Sam was crying, and while I was gone, someone wrote on my notes that I should type them up and hand them out to the community for discussion at the 2nd ACM in January. I am guessing that since we'll be addressing business matters during both January ACMs that this will now be on the agenda for the first ACM in February? I still feel like I am learning the ropes here.
Isabella
Art Weekend Review Everyone agreed the Art Weekend was a valuable and enjoyable weekend.
Possible improvements and concerns:
Nancy willing to make complete risk assessment investigation. Will find out what our major threats are and how a community of our size can properly prepare for them so that every member is provided for. Mary added that Kevin Bell has some of this information and recommended Nancy make contact with him in her risk assessment project. Information should be handed over to the Safty Committee after it's gathered.
Kevin Dwyer spoke of the need for a backup power supply in the Common House. Asked Vaughn if he was any closer to writing a proposal for solor suplied electrical power for the Common House. Vaughn will do it some time in the future, but is too busy now.
Supporting One Another in Times of Crisis or Hardship All agreed that they are willing to help community members in any way they can in times of personal crisis. Asking for help when you need it was seen as the biggest part of this problem. Knowing who had what skills was also seen as a problem. Lynda volunteered to produce a booklet with community process, committee contact, and skills and resource information that could be used as part of orientation. Good idea, but current committee structure and participation or lack of it, seen as a barrier to preparing that information at the moment.
Agreed we are good at the concrete stuff, if we know about it. Agreed that we are less able to deal with emotional or mental health issues. Agreed that those will mental health clinical experience are not able to take community mental health on. Would be like treating a member of own family.
Review of work plan and committee structure seen as crucial to making community resources more visible, especially to new residents.
Checkin * Pair up to discuss highlights of summer or summers of youth.
Overview by Mike P. on bylaws and community agreements: The plat shows the Limited Common Area (legally controlled by the resident) as the porch and the area around the patio (squaring off the building footprint).
By agreement, the space around each unit is taken care of by that unit resident. S/he has responsibility to maintain and authority to make decisions re plantings and removable structures; consult with neighbors to coordinate or okay things.
Fences were consensed during planning behind the southeast fourplex, for dogs, and behind the Crown fourplex, required by UHFA. Any permanent changes or structures must be cleared with the community by formal proposal, such as fences, pergolas or sheds with foundation, etc.
Remodeling of houses needs not only community consent but also planning commission consent, changes to the plat, and payment to the community for the land changing from community to privately controlled.
Question: Should ponds have had proposals? A. Large ones or with permanent foundations, yes. If easy to fill in, maybe not necessary.
Discussion: We can come up with creative ways of deciding sponsorship and care of common areas; it isn't necessary that the area next to a particular unit be that resident's sole responsibility. Many new residents "inherit" plantings from previous residents which aren't necessarily what they want or can care for; try to find a new home and custodian for them instead of letting them die.
Our structure creates a different relationship to neighbors' yards than would exist in private homes; it wouldn't necessarily be any of the neighbors' business what the yard looked like in a private home. A person who planted a plant can be emotionally attached to it, and find it a struggle to let it go into new possibly indifferent hands. For some people it's a struggle to keep a yard to a standard suitable for a highly exposed community area. Sometimes we make judgments about people, "Why did they move into cohousing if they didn't want to ...," yet shared values may motivate entirely different actions in different people. We need a mechanism to deal with areas that aren't being cared for, a way to support people or hand the area over to other care.
Possibility to change areas from grass to xeriscape; pond safety; shared space where houses are close.
A.J. of UHFA gave Management new rental rate guidelines for the Crown units (copies passed out in meeting). It's Management's understanding rents have never been increased. Q. Does Management need to do a formal proposal to raise them, or is that within its purview? A. Talk to the Crown members.
Pointed out during pre-ACM caf‚ to discuss consensus that sometimes body language or expressions don't match words. It might be good, when we see someone have a reaction to something said in a meeting, yet not say anything, to ask that person to speak.
Read the preface and chapters one and two of C. T. Butler, Conflict and Consensus. Download at $3/copy for copyright; copies are available for people without internet.
Presented by Brian.
Do this to take care of our future in 20 years, and then continue discussion about possibilities of other considerations in funding formula. Adequate reserve helps make place more saleable; fairer for reserve to build up now than to ask future residents to come up with money. It is common in condos for special assessments to be required. The amount in the reserve is a very common question for purchaser.
Call for consensus - necessary to increase fees? Stand aside Mike P, would like to see an income-based portion, regards as fairer than sq footage; and yearly increases. Wouldn't raise as much.
Remember this doesn't close the door to adjustments such as yearly increases or different formulas in the future.
Not building in a yearly increase means a higher assessment now to build up a reserve against inflation. The anticipated expenses already assume inflation. The operating budget will require increases to deal with inflation, which will require increases in fee. This proposal doesn't allow for inflation in operating expenses, yet operating expenses are increasing faster than inflation.
Kevin: with 3 years more experience has reassessed some of the expenses for the reserve and thinks now that expenses are overestimated. Oppenheimer Fund is currently doing 7% with reserve. Decks aren't addressed in reserve study. The study also doesn't consider possible additions or remodeling.
A number of people have expressed limited energy to deal with this anymore; may need to act now or risk it being abandoned for a year or more.
#2 has the drawback of a leaky roof from the flat roof/deck above it without the benefit of having a deck. Might be fair to make an assessment especially for decks, reserved for deck expenses.
Call for consensus, this proposal. Stand asides: Mike P. would prefer a formula of $80 flat plus 3c/sq ft rounded up to dollar. Kevin: deck issue not addressed, other issues also not addressed, concerned that group will be reluctant to come back to this issue once a proposal passes. Concerned that if discussion continues, attendance will drop; other community issues are being neglected. We don't have the data/input back from architect and R control on decks/wall rot problem in order to address problem. Amy D arriving, stand aside because hasn't been present. Kevin block, greater portion on sq footage fairer. If round up to nearest dollar probably comes to same amount with 3c/sq ft as 3.1c not rounded. Rounded up would add about $13 (average 50c/unit).
10 prefer $65 base, 4 prefer $80, 3 don't care. Mike P stand aside, closer spread fairer. Left column $65/0.042, mgt to decide what to do about 10th of cent, decision round up or off, get out cards giving new assessment before June 1st.
Storage bin issues re monthly assessment: Decks, non/participation, income, head count.
Laraine is looking for recommendations for a handyman. Raging Water expedition rescheduled for Monday. Amy & Steve Hyde are leaving Friday; farewell potluck Sunday May 12
Decks - selected demolition of south-facing decks to check for damage. Checked after rain this week, decks seem water tight other than Mary & Kay's. Helpful if people will put debris in dumpsters as there is room.
Dining - Nancy would like to turn over responsibility for the dining checkbook.
Issues of yards, pets, how to deal with others. What are our boundaries? What are our expectations about others respecting them? How do we communicate our expectations? Narrow the discussion to, 'What boundaries get brushed up against in cohousing?'
Breakout in groups of three, report back.
Thanks to Lynda for typing the notes and getting them out so quickly!! I really appreciate everyone who has stepped up to that task since we lost the luxury of Hans' presence.
I thought I would post the notes I wrote (with Jen's help) and presented about consensus/process to clarify. They are pasted below. I am not referring to particular proposals. A lot of the ideas come from the Butler & Rothstein Consensus guidebook. Other ideas & the quote from The Four Agreements by Don Miquel Ruiz.
Heather
(I'm not equating cooperation and consensus, but they are used fairly interchangably below. In our context, I think they tend to be synonymous.)
We are used to functioning through competitive engagement rather than cooperation. Competition is essentially fear-based. Cooperation is based on trust.
With consensus decision-making, once an idea or a proposal is put out to the group, it belongs to the group, not the person or persons who proposed it.
In the spirit of cooperation, this allows ideas/proposals to be shaped by the group's energy, involving all members. The proposal emerges/evolves/adapts through the group dynamic. Simultaneously, the proposers try to give up attachment and avoid defensive attitudes toward concerns raised during discussion.
This makes the idea of not taking anything personally important. If you take a proposal personally, you may feel offended and would react by defending your beliefs, rather than listening for the merits of the concerns. Attachment to the idea or proposal often creates conflict.
Avoid making assumptions. Make sure communication is clear. If you have a question or a concern, ask it & voice it. Once you understand the answer, you won't operate under false assumptions. That's your responsibility as a community member and essential to functioning consensus. In order to practice cooperation, we must stop thinking in terms of "they" and realize we are all in this together. WE are the community. No one is going to provide you with the answer if you don't take the responsibility to ask. Similarly, you have a responsibility, that reflects your commitment, to actively participate in meetings and group process.
It is important to assess our relationship to our speech, to think about what we say, to be "impeccable with our word." Consider the necessity and impact of what you're saying; speak form your own truth Speak in the first person, represent your own ideas or feelings, not others'.
Do your best to look at the issue through the lens of community well-being.
"Expressing what you are is taking action, you can have many great ideas in you head, but what matters is the action without action upon an idea, there will be no manifestation, no results and no reward."
Rather than avoiding conflict, consensus requires us to recognize that conflict is necessary and desirable, to be worked out in an atmosphere of creativity and respect. Cooperation requires us to do our best during conflict avoiding contentious issues actually impedes action. Operating out of fear keeps us from truthfully approaching difficult discussions, thus limiting us to inaction.
Linda Reed: Sarah has leased a small house by Liberty Park and is moving this Friday 29 April, starting at 5 pm. Help appreciated. Isabella and her son Sam will be moving in Sunday 1 May at noon, please help with this move if you can.
Eric has been hired by Co-housing.org to spruce up the website. Will be at Wasatch Commons taking photos to be used on the national site.
Steve Sternfeld: Having an Open House this Friday and Saturday to meet his online students, co-housers welcome. Look for the "Open" sign.
Henry Polacek: Henry has joined the School of Rock. They will perform Pink Floyd's The Wall on Friday 20, and Saturday 21 May at the Lo Fi Caf‚ (About 4th West and 600 North), Henry has a sign-up sheet for tickets. $7 per person.
Brian Cousins: May Faire will be held at Fremont Park next Saturday. $5 per child. See Cousins.
Michele Roesner: Next nice day will bring canopies over to the Common House lawn to paint in a fun, funky way. Help appreciated.
Vicky Wason: Rochelle wants to do massage again on Sunday 29 May. Watch for the sign-up sheet.
Kay Argyle: First weekend in May is Red Butte Gardens annual sale. Friday for members, Saturday for the public.
Vaughn Lovejoy: Thursday 28 April, Vaughn will have students her putting in weed fabric. The Permaculture workshop will be May 14-15, starting at 9 am. Community is invited Friday evening May 13 to come and meet the Permaculture participants.
Facilitators & Participants: Next ACM conflicts with Permaculture Workshop, will miss Saturday ACM and meet again Wednesday May 25, at 7-9 pm.
Check in: Funny questions from the dining can.
Materials available from Linda Reed. Heather outlined consensus. Consensus at trust. Proposal owned by community. Conflict needed and desirable to resolve underlying concerns. Don't make assumptions. Responsible to ask thoughtful questions. Speak for yourself, but look at issue through lens of community well-being. Reading of community values. History of HOA fee proposal. Four ACM discussions. Have agreed to scrap income portion. Blocking is a community process of hearing a concern and deeming it unresolvable. Blocking not practically feasible in absentia.
Discussion needs to focus on consideration of others and community welfare. Selfishness sometimes appears to be involved. Perhaps seeing selfishness is judgmental and need to trust that people have community's best interest at heart. Some feel oppressed. Need to consider more factors than base and square footage. Many still feel need is not clear and planned use of extra money is ambiguous. Need a mechanism for contributions to particular fund raising challenges. Some feel conversation about income still important. Others are concerned about the fairness of income as a factor.
1. Why do we need to raise the fee structure?
Mike Angelastro: Over last few years, insurance has gone from $7,500 to $12,000. In addition there was a shortfall of $6,000 on the carport sheds that left us without a reasonable cushion.
Kevin Dwyer: Utilities have gone up and will continue to go up.
Michele Roesner: Never have enough money in committees to really beautify place.
Brian Cousins: At its present level capital fund not adequately funded.
Kevin Dwyer: This is not true. Capital fund has provisions for wide variety of problems and projects. Read the assessment and documentation Kevin did previously.
Brian Cousins: Still think it would be prudent to increase that fund.
Michael Polacek: Came to the discussion believing that when you add up costs for our last budget, we had over $3,500 left. To my mind we don't need to add to budget. Insurance went up dramatically in response to 911, not likely to be as dramatic in the future. In addition it is not simply a money issue that stops things from getting done. Many committees didn't even use their allocated budget money. It is often a going out and getting it done issue. Do see some of the additional need now.
Amy Dwyer: Money coming in not consistent across the year, currently only have $600 in community account.
Brian Cousins: Four column proposal has been posted. Contains varying ratios of base to square footage.
Heather Hirschi: What is Mike Angelastro's 5th column.
Mike Angelastro: If you look at the four columns, go across the line for your unit and pick the lowest amount, that is what the 5th column is.
Brian Cousins: So the 5th column is unworkable in my mind because it levies different ratio rates on different people.
Mike Angelastro: It's not unworkable. Just pick the lowest amount in any of the four columns for your unit. I just thought it might be a good first step to get us moving with less resistance. It yields $3,020 in monthly income. (As compared to $3,140, $3027.20, $3,103.80 and $3,180.40.)
Vicky Wason: So would that solution be temporary? Would we readdress it?
Mike Angelastro: We can readdress any of the formulas we choose.
George Neckel: Did we consense on the income portion being really dead?
Heather Hirschi: Well, yes, basically. There just seemed to be too many concerns around it.
Kevin Dwyer: Still would like to see a voluntary income portion. It's a way for people to invest back in the community. Would actually like us to consider 1. Income. 2. Flat fee. 3. Head tax of perhaps $5 per second and subsequent person in household. 4. Square foot fee. And, to build the community, meals should be free.
Linda Reed: Already have a mechanism to contribute to the community. People do it all the time. Hans bought the orchard. Many of you have chosen to do things for the community and not be compensated for the expense.
Steve Sternfeld: Still like idea of having clear guidelines about covering basic community needs with HOA fees and having another mechanism to collect for special projects.
Mike Polacek: I'd still like a participation component. Many co-housing communities require you to work 4-8 hours and if you don't you pay $10 hour for the hours you are off. Maybe there should be a surcharge for decks. (Joking.) Or a cat tax, no a dog tax fish and birds would be revenue neutral. We should also include an annual increase perhaps tied to the cost of living.
Helen Rollins: Want to thank everyone who is here, propose we send in our May HOA fee at whatever level we can afford to jumpstart the budget while this is still in discussion.
Mike Wason: Would also like to see the fee reflect participation.
Kay Argyle: Would like to see the ability to earmark some portion of the HOA fee for a project you are passionate about. Might take a long time to get it, but at least you would eventually.
Kevin Dwyer: We need to fund those kinds of things by combining our resources.
Gwen Latendresse: Can we have a straw poll on one of these suggested plans?
Heather Hirschi: Which one is the least?
Brian Cousins: That would be column two.
Poll results: Several voted against.
Vicky Wason: Can I just say that I voted against it because it was the one that generated the least revenue for us. If we're going to do it, let's use the one that's going to give us the most, not the least.
Joanne Lovejoy: Very frustrated we couldn't make a decision tonight.
Heather Hirschi: Gone nine, I think this still needs more discussion. Can management work on it again and bring it back again?
Helen Rollins: Yes.
Process Evaluation for Closing
[This is a combination of two different versions of the cleaned-up notes, March 27, 2005 and Feb 12, 2007.]
Egg coloring on Friday with Vicky, Saturday with Lynda. All Easter bunnies meet early Sunday to place eggs. Egg hunt 9:30 Sunday morning.
Vicky is interested in doing a brunch, needs asst. cook & cleanup.
A rollerskating outing at Roller Station by Ballpark Station is scheduled. Everyone welcome. Parents are planning activities for 6th graders who are graduating from O.C.
International Film Festival at Community College next week; Vicky will post notice.
May 14-15 is the Permaculture Conference, with 40 to 50 participants expected.
There are organic tortilla chips leftover from the O.C. event in the kitchen; help yourselves.
Gwen & Wim's unit is up for sale $154 K; rent or lease approx. $1K/mo. Wim will go to Ithaca the 1st of May, Gwen & Cedar in June.
Fox 13 is interested in doing a two-part profile of W.C; Kevin hasn't gotten any negative feedback so will accept.
Vicky said that Helen offered her half garden bed to Celia & Kevin; talk to Helen if any concerns.
The missing DVD player reappeared.
(Vaughn reporting). Thirteen families have signed up for produce and eggs from Celia, plus home pickup of composting material. This year she is charging per item rather than per share: 1/2 lb greens $4, 1/2 dozen eggs $1.50.
(Vicky). Prospect for installing hallway floor didn't show up today. Vicky is offering Gwen's canoe for trade as inducement; another prospect was interested in Rebecca teaching to set up eBay sales. Vicky is waiting to proceed on the kitchen floor planning until money is less tight.
Sign up to facilitate ACMs, please.
Vicky has been doing a lot of tours recently. KRCL is having problems and may not hold Day in the Park.
New tool racks installed in garage by Mike W. and Kevin.
The storm basins need to be cleaned out. May need to seal the parking lot asphalt this summer. Stripes fading on pavement and lettering gone at entrance.
Kevin looked at Mary's (#11) interior wall damage. He called Kier & MJSA who sent representatives the same day (Kevin Zanderberg of MJSA). They couldn't get keys to access the building interiors at such short notice. Kier & MJSA will examine drawings & roofing and get back in a week or so. Kevin would like owners present during inspection by Kier & MJSA.
Mary has called the R control company and he will come out to check the damage and take pictures. Kevin will arrange inspection of interiors. If you have a deck, look carefully at the wall and baseboard for swelling or discoloration. No idea yet of cost, fault, or remediation.
Also looked at drainage onto stucco and improper grading so that earth abuts stucco, allowing wicking of moisture and termite habitat. Need six inches of clearance below the stucco to the soil. MJSA & Kier recommended that soil permeability at that foundation be increased to alleviate standing water or back drainage toward buildings. Kevin will email which units need the foundation soil dug out. May need community work party to accomplish it.
The architect & contractor agreed that the foam sealant applied to the base of R-control was inappropriate. Create positive drainage on roofs with flashing & caulk. Kevin will act as point and welcomes others' involvement.
Corner in #11 (Mary's & Kay's) is staying dry despite the rain this week. The concrete slabs were placed too low during construction or sidewalks too high to allow adequate drainage slope on some homes. Mike W is on spring break this week & happy to help anyone inspect their unit for damage.
Gutter Topper will send someone to inspect the 1st story south gutter on Hugh's where the topper seems incorrectly installed.
Tree Trimming. Helen successfully bid $500 on an all-day three-man crew for tree-trimming, potential $3,000 value, at the Tree Utah fund raiser. [Note: This is the company that does trimming for UPL.] Landscaping and/or maintenance budget will pay. Mary has talked to a contact, and someone will come walk through with her on Friday. Mary feels our priority should be the trees on the central path with trunks that are bending and leaning horizontally over roofs.
Wood Chips. Mary has been following tree-trimming trucks to see about getting free chips. Talked to five companies; they will drop loads here when they are working in our area. One load already delivered in the garden, another to come. Can be used in common or private areas. 'Carriage for Hire' delivered a free dump truckload of sawdust-manure to the garden.
Garden Water. Kevin completed water repairs in the garden. The water [stop-&-waste valve] will stay off until after the last freeze date, but on a daily basis can be turned on for use then turned off. Don't leave hoses on unit hosebibs overnight until mid-May; bibs are only 'freeze-proof' without a hose connected.
Dog poop. Kevin has noticed quite a big of dog poop and has been cleaning up droppings. Certain areas aren't getting attended to, such as by Vivian's. Michele will try for once-a-week patrol; she did the orchard. She has gotten a doggy-do compositing toilet for yard. Cats have been using the area behind Brian's.
The proposal has been modified (distributed). The differences include.
The income-based portion is defined as IRS gross minus uninsured medical expenses &
support for nondependent children/grandchildren.
Square footage is now based on bylaws instead of construction documents (the difference is probably because shared walls are included in the former).
The $60 base was arrived at because 2/3 expenses are common and equally distributed.
Decks were not included in the square footage or other considerations, despite the problems associated with them.
Clarifying Q. What is the goal for this money? The base plus square footage is intended to be income neutral (no raise, no decrease). The income portion allows extra funding for the capital reserve and allows savings for when members have retired on lower incomes and an additional buffer for unexpected maintenance costs.
For rentals, this portion is calculated based on the renter's income, not the owner's. Income is not subject to verification, but income-based portion of payment is not voluntary. We are trusting people to be honest.
Mortgage companies usually want a figure for the HOA fee Is this too confusing? Can state the range is from $100 to $150. Insurance premiums are eating an increasing share of the budget. Our discretionary funds decreased $5,000 in the last five years because of the $5,000 insurance increase.
The income component is in addition to the funds needed to keep the community running.
The community needs to know what fees will be to plan the budget. Definitely can plan on the base plus square footage plus $10 per household.
Glad be having this discussion, it reflects the community interest in economic equity.
Don't agree with concept; didn't subscribe to community on basis of equal income or income sharing.
The income portion is a small part of the whole. Income-sharing community are very different from this. Going from 100% non-income-sharing to 99% non-income sharing.
People in different circumstances should be dealt with as individuals. $100 means a different amount to different people. This fits with our values; it is socially just. It takes a certain amount just to live; it is fair to ask more of someone who has more.
Uncomfortable with changing rules, political turn of policy; can't unjoin the community after financially committed.
Community deliberately targeted low income when forming. We have changed a lot of rules based on our values.
Can't stay if fees go up too much; already working two jobs.
The current government is conservative, yet has progressive taxes.
Try voluntary instead of obligatory for a year & see what funds are generated?
Issues for additional discussion: Equity/fairness, decks, household size, uncertainty of budget, goal for funds.
Let Management know if you feel strong opposition. Suggest changes that would make it more palatable.
Proposal was presented/reviewed. *Please see Proposal.
Capitol Expenses V. Operating could/would be split.
People could propose where the 'extra' money generated would go, not necessarily to capitol expenditures.
Thanks, impressed. Encompassed a lot of last ACM discussion. Fair, looking at #'s it look's good. Addresses concerns that have been expressed re: income-based. People can choose to pay a lower-amount.
Voluntary means you don't have to report income, however you do have to pay something.
Minimum of $10.00 =planning # and anything more would be extra for Rainy-Day Fund.
Monthly payment could vary?? voluntary??
With square footage portion, we still meet budget needs (at this point). Income-based portion would be extra money.
There is a problem with looking at income-share going to capitol expenditures. $money put in & back out ... think about it this way: additional $money could be used for a number of things raising security here, amenities, etc., etc., etc. Capitol reserve seems accurate to me, at this point, to fullfill future roof need, etc. Budgetary trends right now (a) Insurance rate increased significantly and could be as much as $20,000 in 5 years (b) water is going up, outpacing inflation. Annual increase by % to stay comfortable should be implemented.
Renters benefit from improvements...from past and present improvements and all benefit.
Should be up to the owner/renter who pays what amount. I like the idea that it is up to the community. Thanks for time and effort - however, may add complexity to selling unti but reflects our values in a fair way. We could do # of people per house, # of vehicles, # of damage factors ie; pets & kids, decks/roofs etc.
Owners responsibility to pay, not renters.
Should be based on renter's income, not owner's b/c owner would be charged more if their income is more and then may charge renter more.
Notion of "who" should pay more? people have radically different expenses, no matter how much there income is.
If the renter has to pay the owner, the owner will then know the renteres income. Less confidentiality.
Annual cost of living raise should be put in this proposal. Possibly a 3% increase. This mirrors a flat tax, income tax National discussion -- complex v. simple v. fair.
Owner has ultimate responsibility.
Income is NOT a good measure of personal wealth. However, not oppsed to some measure of personal affluence. Could be very different from house to house. Personal situations. Income is not a fair gauge of wealth. Wasatch Commons is Fair. We need to keep in mind personal situations.
Income base is 1/3 of budget, trying to not be complex, trying to be Fair.
One # that reflects "wealth" is After-Tax Income; which takes into account kids, 401K, etc. May address some "fairness" issues, perhaps, more fairly.
We get attached to the theory...we know eachother, share confidentials. So for me, income-base is not a big deal, givne what we have to work with. It addresses needs. Invested in community.
Why we need the $money I understand. Income-based is kind of cold. I would rather look at it as a pledge. My pledge could change from year to year, month to month.
Call it an Income-Wealth Share. Voluntary or recommended, self-reporting. Trust, being honest with eachother.
I am close to retirement, looking at things differently: I like the idea of paying into the community now, instead of 5 years from now, for instance, needing roof repairs, and the $money is not available and I don't have it.
We know each other, but not all of our expenses. At the University is a book with all Professor salaries. Incomes could be known. My income could be public infomation. However, we can never put in a book, on the table so to speak, all of our personal situations.
Put $money into a holding account so at the end of ech year we know how much $money was generated by the income-base share. The we can budget at that point. Possibly have an open enrollment proposal period and weigh options of how to spend the money V. first come, first serve situations.
Voluntary ...we are trying to agree that if they make, for instance, $50,000 then they pay an extra $20.00 a month --- self-reporting v. voluntary.
Concensus??? More discussion. Managament Committee will Tweak the proposal a bit for next ACM discussion. Check-Out.
Next ACM Wednesday March 23, 2005 7-9pm. Heather Facilitating?? Kay note-taker.
****Please send a proxy re: HOA dues proposal...we may call for Concensus at this meeting.
Jennifer V. Graves
Started 7pm. Helen reported that management had been very successful in getting files organized. Helen will check with Hugh to make sure Crown report is being done.
We discussed for a few minutes the apparent lack of energy (ie. drop off in dining & low meeting attendance) in the community. We did not have any solutions. Check out 7:20 pm
Brief summary of the Homeowners Association Dues discussion. I will send out a more detailed document in the next few days.
Check-in is about Creating Connections between each other and sharing our stories, is not an announcement or a time to ask questions.
Shakespeare "Much Ado About Nothing" (Community Actors Zane, Cedar, Henry, and Taylor) Tues-Fri (2/15-18) showtimes vary and Tickets are limited...contact Jen, Heather, Mike P, Lynne, or Gwen for further details.
Utah Phillips this Wdnesday February 16th - Tickets on sale at the Rose Wagner Theatre ($15. - $17.) and proceeds Benefit UTAH JOBS WITH JUSTICE - contact Heather or George for further details.
Community Council Wed. Feb 16th Mtn. View Elementary @ 7- 8:30p.m.
Massage (Richelle Hawks) Sign-up Sheets in Mailroom for Sat & Sun Feb 19 & 20.
Lock box for association fees & rent checks - Please put all checks in the box.
Bellydance Festival March 4th Utah State Fairgrounds-Vivian performs at 8:30p.m
Interested in a group with Linda Reed on Sat afternoon-evening or Sunday? - light physical exercise, focus on center, integrity, conflicts work, etc. PLease contact Linda
Linda facilitated this discussion using The Six Hats Method (plus one more). The philosophy behind The Six Hats Method is that everyone is 'wearing' the same hat at the same time -- that all community members speak to the category (hat) for that part of the discussion. Although the process had some minor kinks, it seemed most people like this process and would like to use it again.
The White Hat = information, The Red Hat = emotion, The Yellow Hat - optimism, the pros, positive thinking, The Black Hat = judgement, the cons, negative thinking, The Green Hat = creativity, alternatives, new approaches, The Blue Hat = process, instructions, control of other hats, (7th hat) THE GOLD HAT = values.
ACM minutes Discussion: Part II coming soon. I will send out a more detailed document in the next few days.
Jennifer V. Graves
From: wacoho on behalf of Jennifer Graves\Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:10 PM
To: wacohoSubject: [WaCoHo] ACM Minutes Part II: HOA Dues
Attachments: ATT00024.txt
I am sorry for not getting these notes out sooner. Please forgive me. The following is a summary of the ACM discussion on February 12th re: HOA Dues Re-Allocation.
Linda Reed facilitated and used the SIX HATS METHOD (plus one more). The philosophy behind The Six Hats Method is that everyone is 'wearing' the same hat at the same time -- that all community members speak to the category (hat) for that part of the discussion. Although the process had some minor kinks, it seemed most people like this process and would like to use it again.
The White Hat = information, The Red Hat = emotion, The Yellow Hat - optimism, the pros, positive thinking, The Black Hat = judgement, the cons, negative thinking, The Green Hat = creativity, alternatives, new approaches, The Blue Hat = process, instructions, control of other hats, (7th hat) THE GOLD HAT = values.
Based on INCOME -- The White Hat and Yellow Hat: 3-tiered method=income up to $50,000 pay $100.00 a month, $50,-75,000. pay $125.00 a month, etc., Need to consider aging members and fixed-incomes so the community should begin now to have a "cushion". A lot of members agreed that this way seemed fair -- if I make more, I should pay more. It was also said that this would create a deeper concern for community members, taking into account their finincial situation, communication, potential to strengthen one another, etc. This is Fair. Could also incorporate a "self-determined" system = baseline (pay this much), set the yearly budget, then community members anonimously write down an amount they can pay and the community then tries to reach the budget.
Based on INCOME -- The Black Hat: Some people may be considered "free loaders", self-reported might equate to dishonesty. Lifestyles may be judged. Harder process in terms of budgeting. Difficult for outsie people to accept b/c it is uncommon and highly progressive, enlightened, radical, and could potentially make the community appeal to fewer people = market is lowered and there are already 4 houses up for sale that are not selling. CROWN, what is their role? Renters vs. homewoners. Multiple owned units by one party...who's income is taken into consideration?
Based on INCOME -- The Red Hat: Finaaly talking about this...yea. This is an income diverse community and this will help us pay attention to one another, create more awareness, out in the open would simplify some interactions, more tangible. CROWN has to verify income every year so this would feel good that ALL members would have to. Feel fair, like income tax, you make more, you contribute more. TRUST a big issue, feeling like "thin ice", but willing to give it a try. This discussion is potentially a "hot button" topic and it is so much easier to talk about it using the Hat method. Beauty of the Hat Method.
Based on House size/Family size -- The White Hat and The Yellow Hat: House size was the most common used in other cohousing communitie b/c of maintenance being more than half of community expense. About $.80 per square foot annually = approx budget we have now. Most 3-4 bedrooms would raise dues, most 1-2 bedrooms would lower dues. Look at varying budget expenses and come up with a formula for house size and family size. We need to look at maintenance of won home plus common house, grounds, workshop, etc. 10% of total budgeting sq. footage are related to common areas = more insurance and maintenance expense. Addittional household members means more hands to help. Budgetary tool. House/family size is secondary to income. Base rate $.80 per sq. foot, then go from there to income tiers = creative combination or self-determined. Basing it on Sq, footage takes the TRUST issue out. Basing assessments on sq footage is appealing b/c it is conservative and may appeal more to potential buyers. Allows more variation in adjusting and would not be too "harry" to figure out.
Based on House size/Family size -- The Black Hat: House/Family size is not the "right" way b/c; (1) House size is not dependent on income and is not an indication of anything -- life changes and there are varying situations, and (2) people may be in a certain size house b/c that is all that was available, not necessarily what was wanted. FIXED vs. VARIABLE?? Roofs...what about the homeowners who are on the bottom of a 2-story (ie; Units 1 & 2).
Based on House size/Family size -- The Red Hat: This is a necessary discussion to continue. Feeling confused becasue of renters not paying condo fees, owners pay those. need to factor in renteres, owners, and CROWN. This process was good. Feel that there may be a division in the community and this process let's us talk about it. I'm experiencing a bringing together: process plus the work of the community. Puttin our values and beliefs into practice is not always easy, but this methos made it not so hard. People were able to share valid points and it did not feel offensive and did not upset. We're moving forward, not stuck.
FOLLOW-UP: What are the Pros and Cons? Hat processs is good b/c people can take all sides.
Helen, Mike A, and Hans are staying on for another year; we need two reps to replace Linda and Hugh. We also have, unofficially, Jen as the Crown rep., and Becky as the renter's rep.
By the bylaws, the official mgmt committee members, must be homeowners, but we usually let everybody present vote.
Nominations: Amy D., Brian.
Call for consensus on these two, accepted with consensus.
Not only approve the expenses, but we also need a discussion of the funding formula.
Amy D. presented the budget. Right now we have no cash in the bank, no float. This makes it very difficult to pay bills, some bills cannot be paid immediately. The budget is such that at the end of the year we should have built up a $3000 float.
Here are some comments to the line items:
Electric on CH and car ports: we budgeted more than 50% more than we actually spent. That would be place to be a little more conservative. Unless we spend the premium for wind power. This would buy a bunch of blocks of wind power.
Answer: We replaced lots of lights with compact fluoresents.
Linda: I recommend a quick overview, and leave details to the management committee.
Hans: windpower is something that individual households should do. Put into storage bin.
Someone: 2004 was quite a decrease in usage of CH.
Water usage: we are in a high water bracket, orchard has been watered by the households adjacent to the orchard.
Naomi is using about $200 a year for watering the North property.
Dues and subscriptions. The cohousing association is begging for donations, we should make a donation.
Suggest 20 dollars donation, subscribe.
Others said this was not enough.
We can get subscription, leave $150 for subscriptions.
Insurance is huge. Has somebody looked into insurance?
Naomi: we did try to get better rates; we seem to have a good agent. Almost half the budget, unlike some other develoopments, we own and operate it, and I think that, if it took 10 hours to review the insurance and saved us 1000, this would be 100 an hour.
Mike P: quite high because it covers the building rebuilding; home insurance bills should be fairly small compared to most homeowners.
Earthquake insurance is quite expensive, and individual homeownsers don't even have the option.
These guys are on top of it. It is not only homeowners, but also officer's liasbility and owner's liabilty for crown units.
In the past members of mgmt. have looked into it.
Jen: on mgmt we had discussion of insurance, Greg is our agent because he is paid to look for a cheaper policy.
Mike A: on TV they said that the independent insurance brokers also get paid by the big insurance companies.
Linda: purpose of this meeting is not to decrease expenses, but to approve expenses.
Laraine: it depends how ethical the agents are.
Heather: there is no disagreement on the desire to have lower insurance.
Should we roll all the 1300 from the truck over into landscape budgets?
In the future should we also have the budgets for individual committees with us?
We took the truck to get gravel, we made 50 trips to get horse manure.
Heather: landscaping is one of our biggests expenses.
Some of this is committee work, we shoud trust each other as committees to make the right decisions.
Laraine: would be nice to have a sheet with committee meetings.
Mike: get an overall look at how and where this money is spent.
request for another 260 for ads, we can put that into this.
There have been donations by the people who are marketing their homes.
Dust collection system for woodworking shop 300 more into workshop committee.
The $6240 item maybe we whould raise it. Kevin looked at it in 2003, this seemed to be about the right amount, but it has to go up over time.
Is the resere fund invested? Yes, in an Oppenheimer fund.
Some people are behind on their monthly dues.
Mike P. if people do not make their monthly dues we should know as a community.
Several people didn't pay their fee one time.
Management meeting on Wednesday.
Accepted unanimolusly.
2 pm, but we haven't begun discussing the funding formula.
Stirling: should we have a funding committee?
Kevin: I like the whole group discussion idea.
Next ACM a significant amount of time on funding formula.
Kay, Kevin, Amy D, Stirling.
Breakdown of insurance costs into how much we pay for what coverage might be informative for an equitable funding formula.
We do need facilitators for this.
[Vicky]. George got all the floor trim he could done.
Vicky got a carpet remnant for $60 for the back hall. Still need pad and labor. Can we find someone to lay it without charge? Maybe barter via internet lists. Everyone please provide Vicky info on their skills or items available to donate for barter.
DI took most of the stuff from the back porch; rejected the hockey table.
After checking many stores Vicky finally found a cushy vinyl to consider for the kitchen, EQ All Court, $14/sq ft. New product; Hugh couldn't find info on it. Same distributor (Bare Foot Floors) has cork, but that is much more delicate.
On January 15, 7:00 p.m. Coffee House to benefit community band Dead Motive. Need more performers. Please loan small tables or card tables for the evening.
[Steve S.]. Steve will be cleaning out the books in the sitting room and will put a notice in internal mail, whiteboard, and listserve for people to retrieve loaner books if desired. Brian has couches to donate. The wooden end tables were donated(?) by Brian and Stirling. [Mary] When the stove is picked up to put flooring under it in the kitchen, it will be reinstalled facing the opposite direction for improved work flow.
[Mike P.]. Community Council Meeting is the third Wednesday. Can we get someone onto the council? no volunteers.
Process needs facilitators.
[Vicky]. No reservations for tour today. Hugh & Judy have made a flyer for their unit. She would like to advertise community in Redirect guide published on Earth Day, ~ $300.
[Heather]. Meet 4:00-5:30 Sunday. Discussed game system for kids room with kids; will not put one in at this time. Waiting for mural to be finished. Have made budget request for climbing wall and mat. Looking into a maturation program for 4th thru 6th graders, perhaps a woman who does it for the O.C.
Cleanup today 1:00 p.m. Please pay up dining cards.
Wednesday January 26, 7:00-9:00 p.m., is the annual W.C. condo assn meeting. Will need to replace Hugh & Linda on the Management Committee.
Want to put in the toilet and sink this year. Labor can be done by community members.
[Mike P.]. There was a conflict in reservations during holiday season, one by email vs. one on calendar in coatroom. Decision: The paper calendar is the official one and has precedence. Ask Hans to add a proviso to the email calendar that it is only for informational purposes and that reservations need to be written on the paper calendar. Helen will donate a 2005 calendar. Mary will install chains on the guest room doors and a card holder for names. [Vaughn] March 19-26 will have 10 students staying in c.h., spring break volunteers from the U of Kansas.
Management [Helen]. Preliminary budget discussion. C.H. flooring and workshop toilet were the top priorities from the survey. Landscape and Maintenance will be getting increases; otherwise committee budgets will be mostly the same as previously. No Retreat unless we assess or fund-raise. Insurance went up and has been split into quarterly payments.
The budget will replace the float in the checking account (spent last year) at $3,000. Cash flow is so tight Amy had to postpone the utility payments. Please get reimbursement requests in promptly throughout the year, not all at the end.
Budget provides for running expenses, not capital expenses or improvements. We've been running on the surplus from construction until now. Be aware the condo fee hasn't been covering all 'goodies'; for instance, Celebrations paid for much of the Anniversary party out of their own pockets. Will discuss at the annual meeting possibilities of changing method of calculating monthly assessments, raising the condo fee by a set amount per month for a particular project each year, donations, other possible methods of raising funds for improvements.
Check internal mailboxes for the budget before the annual meeting.
Extended Checkout [Vaughn & Joanne]. Reflections on past year; global, community, personal.
April 25, 2020