All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: crown fence; budget discussion; re-keying CH; maintaining enthusiasm;
All-Community
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: solar panels; burned out pole light bulbs; group process;
All-Community
All-Community
Decisions: crown 4-ft fence
Discussion: crown fences; seed committee
All-Community
Decisions: nstall irrigation system east parking lot islands & orchard
Topics: guest room murphy bed
All-Community
Discussion: water bills
All-Community
Discussion: maintenance
All-Community
Discussion: permaculture; clean up;
All-Community
Discussion: orientation; process mandates
All-Community
Discussion: membership committee; safety; reviewing mandates
All-Community
Discussion: interactive web sites
All-Community
Decisions: process to allow kids to unsupervised common house use
Topics: kids using common house, dojo cleanup
Discussion: work support
retreat
Discussion: participation, process committee duties
retreat
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: relationships
retreat
Discussion: fence unit #25
retreat
Decisions:
Topics:
Discussion: consensus process, participation, vision, trust
annual
Decisions: passed budget
Topics:
Discussion: elections, budget, retreat
Proposal: budget 2007
Getting budget together. Submit budget request by Dec. 12. People finishing term, Nancy and Vaughn, Hans has filled in for Mike C. We need to elect 3 people to management. Please Hand in Receipts, If You Don't Have Them Hand Something to Account for the Expenditures.
Safety has $300 Celebrations will probably spend all. Workshop and maintenance has money left, suggestions, rain gutter covers on workshop and on some units, tree limbs taken care of. Projects need overseer, who can do this?? Send in your projects for 2008
We have managed to spend our money. Bought things for kid's room and are going to get a WEE??
Meeting about crown fence, Myste is representing Crown on the issue, she is getting wood prices.
Cost of having electronic combination locks on 2 main entrance doors. Kevin is getting a bid on the locks. Some discussion about what constitutes a committee. Look at our annual meeting to talk about restructuring committees and how we do business.
On to the meeting: Steve using quote about "new eyes" Seeing things that are available right here with new eyes. People only hear you when they are moving toward you. We judge by our family history .What might we learn from one another? How might we see with new eyes?
Heather: Moments when we create through the group process are rewarding. I get weary of interactions when they are long and painful. Having respect for ideas, and seeing things as an on-going process is helpful.
Kay: Giving things a different title could help. Work reports, projects, managers, individual project, and Progress reports. Re-framing might help to move from that stuck place of always using committee reports.
Laraine: Comes from emptiness, I jump back in and keep working, but get discouraged. We need to revisit if it is possible for us to do all the work? I'm personally working on not taking offense.
Steve: We get better at learning to talk to one another. Nancy persuaded me to do this meeting because of the way she asked me. Others will hold the space; we don't all have to be on the same page at once. Acknowledge the positive things when we get together.
Please make corrections in these notes, if I've misquoted you I'm sorry. There was much insight shared that is hard to capture on paper. Which is the reason ACM attendance is important.
Sunday Nov 18 big farewell and welcome dinner: starts at 5 pm, Steve will be cooking, instead of potluck, signup sheets will be posted soon.
If you have cardboard juice containers with metal foil inside, please put them on Ann's porch
Kay: reminder, hoses need to be disconnected from hose bibs. Also look at your rain gutters so that rain won't damage stucco.
Mike P: starting Wednesday there will be lots of stuff on the back porch from them moving out. They may also have furniture to sell or give away.
Some people (Naomi, Hans) are interested in installing solar pamels, either on individual units or in the CH.
Heather: We appled for getting solar panels in the past, and although we did not get the grant, there was quite a bit of interest in pursuing it. Maybe these grants are available again? Shall we apply aagain?
Naom: i'd like to see the application.
Heather will upload it on the web site.
Mary: It is getting more difficult to lay the poles down because the hex screws are stripped. Some of them cannot tipped over, mounds in the way. We have bulbs.
Can it be done with a ladder? Yes, if the ladder is big enough. We need a tripod ladder. Some felt this is dangerous.
If we did hire someone, it would be worth replacing every light.
Some bulbs have been in place for many years, others burned out after a year or so. We have two different brands of bulbs, but they don't seem different. It is also necessary to repaint the tops, and to give the lightpoles a good paint job.
We should have a walkaround at night so that we see which lights are off.
It takes safety glasses because the halogen lights can explode, use gloves and don't put oil on the glasses
Ladder: 700 dollars.
Ask management: what is maintenance's budget?
We don't have an active meaintenance committee.
We could also rent a basket lift.
Important that we maintain the knowledge how to do these things.
Mary find the info about the different options: hiring someone, buying or renting a ladder, renting a basked lift. Take it to management, management makes the decison.
The rest of the meeting was taken by everyone saying what their strengths and weaknesses are in terms of the values of the community. This was too personal to take notes.
From: wacoho on behalf of Joanne Lovejoy\Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:41 AM
To: WaCoHo
Subject: Re: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes Nov 10
Thanks for the minutes Hans.You do a great job of taking complete notes.I sometimes think the ACM notes would make amusing scripts for plays. I would like to add a few remarks . The issues we discussed were from a book on Building United Judgment. These are attitudes for building effective consensus, which are similar to our values around relationships and community building. These are attitudes to aim for, no one is going to do everything perfectly(we are human). These are issues for self exploration, because when it comes right down to it, we can only change ourselves. We were asked to look at the following in attitudes in terms of our strengths and what we find difficult or challenging.(not necessarily weaknesses) I'm writing them down so those who were not available to come to the ACM can get a clearer picture of what was discussed.
Cooperation, as opposed to competition An emphasis on Mutual Trust Common ownership of Ideas Valuing feelings Valuing Conflict Valuing the Contribution of all Members Making an Effort to Equalize Power
There were some thoughtful responses to these issues. I felt it was valuable to see where people are coming from at this time without trying to fix or change on another.
I would like to do more community building meetings of this type,maybe every 3rd meeting or so., not necessarily with the same degree of personal exploration, but with the intention of building more open communication and understanding. Open to comment.
Joanne
PS It was Amy H. in attendance, not Amy D.
Mary: This week is fundraiser week for public radio. And both 4th street clinic and foodbank are tight for thanksgiving and the holidays.
Naomi: there is a primary election; on the ballot is a proposition to create a bond for the construction of police and some other facility units. Large amount, would be $150 per year for our property taxes. Discussion said that the downtown police building is overcrowded, but there are concerns about the pricetag
Laraine: Friday Oct 26 dance is coming up. Great Band. Needs help to set up tables etc.
Hans: plum tree East of East carports has great plums.
Mary: our neighbor Frank Acrimon has fallen, broken ribs, will be healing would be nice to drop by and say hello, his wife has cancer.
Meal on Wednesday before next ACM, then discussion how to revitalize dining.
Mary: Murphy bed has beem installed.
Committee discussed budget. How to avoid having more expenses than income so that we have to pay taxes on them. Linda sent email.
water system will be installed next Wednesday,
Rubberized mulch was put into the play area, paid form parents committee, we bought it from Market Square Industrial at about 1/5 of regular price.
There are still branches lying around which need to be sawed and over time put into garbage.
Question: Are there woodchips available? If it is on common property is owned by the community.
Bulk seed order together with Celia, seed celebration with catalogs next
Spring.
Myste: wanted to have something like south end of dog row, but want something which is durable with low maintenance.
Recycled vinyl fence from a local company, reinforced with steel. We looked 4-foot slatted plus 1 foot of lattice on top
4100 cost, comes from CROWN funds.
Can be scheduled 6 weeks out, Summer or Winter.
Sand color matches the stucco.
Adobeclay looks closer to a cedar or wood type fence.
Lot of this was covered in last munute.
Gates? yes. They are 4 feet wide.
Advantage?
Privacy is an issue, and headlights shining in.
Joanne: two things to be decided: (1) height of the fences, (2) where Vivian's fence is
Mary: right now we have Vivian's, Laraine's, and Kevin's unit looking at the cars for safety and security. If the fence extends all the way out and 6 feet high, Vivian will not be able to see if something is happening there.
Original consensed proposal is 4 foot fence. height is an issue.
Precise layout for Linda's and Vivian's end is an issue.
Kevin: square off Vivian's fence with north end of storage bins.
Wooden fence have a nice character, does not like a Vinyl fence.
Myste: this was discussed in the committee. Some of us really liked the look of wood. But you do have to maintain it. Replace slabs, treat the wood.
Maintenance and durability.
If you look at our wooden dumpsters, wood has been available for 9 months and nobody fixed it, despite our desire for nice aesthetics. Wood at ends and vinyl at interiors? pretty wood is nice but lot of wear and tear.
Kevin: I'd like the crown people commit to maintain it. It is a significant investment by community, community is giving up access.
Most of it will be significantly shaded from UV. others are pretty shady.
Walkaround and final proposal will be on next Saturday ACM
It has been consensed that a fence, but we have to decide what type.
Naomi: should be understood that this fence is not a blueprint for further fencing.
Consensed as community on 4-foot stucco fence.
Angelastros have committed to wooden cedar lattice, but Crown fence will have plants in front of it.
People on the North end are in favor of a wood fence.
Joanne: we will have to paint ours again, wood is a lot of work. Crown units have gotten together and decided what they can maintain. We should honor their decision.
Mary: we also replaced the wooden decks.
Laraine: preference is wood, but a vinyl fence with plants over it is fine.
Money comes from CROWN maintenance fund every decision we make is a time committment. Wood versus vinyl is hundreads of hours.
110 feet of fence on both sides.
Hob: one word, vinyl.
Bring color sample.
Next ACM on Wednesday discussion to revitalize dining, Wed 7-9
Saturday ACMs are 10-12 September-May, 1-3 June-August.
Mary: This week is fundraiser week for public radio. And both 4th street clinic and foodbank are tight for thanksgiving and the holidays.
Naomi: there is a primary election; on the ballot is a proposition to create a bond for the construction of police and some other facility units. Large amount, would be $150 per year for our property taxes. Discussion said that the downtown police building is overcrowded, but there are concerns about the pricetag
Laraine: Friday Oct 26 dance is coming up. Great Band. Needs help to set up tables etc.
Hans: plum tree East of East carports has great plums.
Mary: our neighbor Frank Acrimon has fallen, broken ribs, will be healing, would be nice to drop by and say hello, his wife has cancer.
Meal on Wednesday before next ACM, then discussion how to revitalize dining.
Mary: Murphy bed has beem installed.
Committee discussed budget. How to avoid having more expenses than income so that we have to pay taxes on them. Linda sent email.
water system will be installed next Wednesday.
Rubberized mulch was put into the play area, paid form parents committee, we bought it from Market Square Industrial at about 1/5 of regular price.
There are still branches lying around which need to be sawed and over time put into garbage.
Question: Are there woodchips available? If it is on common property is owned by the community.
Bulk seed order together with Celia, seed celebration with catalogs next Spring.
Myste: wanted to have something like south end of dog row, but want something which is durable with low maintenance.
Recycled vinyl fence from a local company, reinforced with steel. We looked 4 foot slatted plus 1 foot of lattice on top
4100 cost, comes from CROWN funds.
can be scheduled 6 weeks out, Summer or Winter.
Sand color matches the stucco.
Adobeclay looks closer to a cedar or wood type fence.
Lot of this was covered in last munutes.
Gates? yes. They are 4 feet wide.
Advantage?
privacy is an issue, and headlights shining in.
Joanne: two things to be decided: (1) height of the fences, (2) where Vivian's fence is
Mary: right now we have Vivian's, Laraine's, and Kevin's unit looking at the cars for safety and security. If the fence extends all the way out and 6 feet high, Vivian will not be able to see if something is happening there.
Original consensed proposal is 4 foot fence.
height is an issue.
Precise layout for Linda's and Vivian's end is an issue.
Kevin: square off Vivian's fence with north end of storage bins.
Wooden fence have a nice character, does not like a Vinyl fence.
Myste: this was discussed in the committee. Some of us really liked the look of wood. But you do have to maintain it. Replace slabs, treat the wood. Maintenance and durability.
If you look at our wooden dumpsters, wood has been available for 9 months and nobody fixed it, despite our desire for nice aesthetics. Wood at ends and vinyl at interiors?
pretty wood is nice but lot of wear and tear.
Kevin: I'd like the crown people commit to maintain it. It is a significant investment by community, community is giving up access.
Most of it will be significantly shaded from UV. others are pretty shady.
Walkaround and final proposal will be on next Saturday ACM
It has been consensed that a fence, but we have to decide what type.
Naomi: should be understood that this fence is not a blueprint for further fencing.
Consensed as community on 4-foot stucco fence.
Angelastros have committed to wooden cedar lattice, but Crown fence will have plants in front of it.
People on the North end are in favor of a wood fence.
Joanne: we will have to paint ours again, wood is a lot of work. Crown units have gotten together and decided what they can maintain. We should honor their decision.
Mary: we also replaced the wooden decks.
Laraine: preference is wood, but a vinyl fence with plants over it is fine.
Money comes from CROWN maintenance fund.
every decision we make is a time committment. Wood versus vinyl is hundreads of hours.
110 feets of fence on both sides.
Hob: one word, vinyl.
Bring color sample.
next ACM on Wednesday discussion to revitalize dining.
Wed 7-9.
Saturday ACMs are 10-12 September-May, 1-3 June-August.
The following items were reported on at the Saturday ACM.
Water set up. Mary found a very good bid for the orchard and islands.She was able to find a reliable company to do the islands and orchard for $35.00 and hour, with a firm bid of $2000.00 . This is $1200 for the orchard, $300 and $500 for the islands.The orchard and islands will be done this fall. The sprinkler heads on the Common House grounds will be changed in the spring to give us a more efficient watering system. It was consensed at the meeting to go ahead with the project. Thanks Mary
The Murphy bed will be installed in the back room sometime this week.
Tree issues We were hoping Utah Power would remove the broken limb of the tree on Cheyenne. After coming with their truck and seeing it, they decided it was not a job they could do. The reason being, it did not interfere with the power line. There may be a possibility of having the phone company look at it to see if it would interfere with their lines. We may wait until winter for the lower rates for cutting and hire it out.. Management will decide "what next".
The remainder of the meeting was spent in cleaning up around the grounds and the Common House. A lot was accomplished by all.
Movie night tonight 20 minutes before 9, in search of Bobby Fisher
Gracie is selling lemonade and coke for 25 cents.
Cat workshop is cancelled.
Registration to vote deadline is Monday (for people who have moved and intend to vote)
Plums on central path are getting ripe, perhaps another week.
Friday Aug 24 Mayoral candidate night.
permaculture workshoop Sep 27 - Oct 9: 14 days all day every day one day off. There was some doubt about filling all the positions. Only 3 people signed up so far, so we should advertise it.
Lynda is sole member of celebrations, That is not doable in the long run. please look her up if you want to join this committee.
focus on financal things. Resurfacing the parking lot. Hans is going to be on until January instead of Mike Colby
get the mandates together. Today is the deadline. There are various issues that are never brought to process to discuss. If anybody does have issues, please come to us. We only have the arachaic list of storage items.
Ad hoc committee for member orientation.
Matt has been doing the posts, needs more laquer. He did the berm and should have gotten permission first.
possible tenant but not yet. Discussing fencing the backyards of Crown.
Management looked at finances, water bills increasing.
Are the bills increasing for reasons we have to expect?
More questions than answer.
Awareness where you see that water can be conserved.
Lynda: Hob's and our water is on the same meter. When the orchard is watered it's going against a bill that is already double bill.
Discussion whether our house billings go to the higher levels; apparently some do.
City came two months ago to see why the workshop water does not meter anything.
How many water lines does the community have? Common house, gardening, and workshop.
We should be cognizant of water usage.
Nancy: if there isn't a meter present it will cost for 1 inch line 2100 dollar to install the meter, 2 inch line costs approc 3400 dollars.
But since there is a meter hooked up, it would not cost us anything to water other things from that present meter.
Acrimon's strip the water was on for 5 hours. This is the spigot deep inside the box. We have no idea who turns it on.
Orchard: if the homes at the orchard want to get it off their meter, then we should do it.
The two little islands: on Vicky's side it is their water, the other is from Heather's water bill.
We should fix the toilet in the dojo.
Rates have gone up.
We should buy timers and meters to determine where are we overwatering?
CH bills are considerably higher than East side.
How much does it take to water the lawn?
How much water is Mary using for her property? We should meter all the differnt bibs out there, to get a clearer picture
On the lawn: how can we make the determination that we are not overdoing it?
Mike P: Looking at these bills: huge jump on East side, because we have more beds.
Rates have gone up 4-6 percents every year.
It is not a huge problem.
It is a landscaping issue, if you get together, if you as a group decide what the proper amount of water is.
Acrimon should not be allowed to open the valve. He should not be getting near that valve. Can it be locked?
Orchard: makes lots of sense to hook that dripline off the workshop bill. Makes things easier, instead of having it through individual houses.
Lynda: happy to kick in donation of water, but looking for a smart system.
Laraine: there should be one person or a committee who is responsible for the water.
Heather: CH laws seems really really watered this year. It is committee work, but that particula committee is really hard to work with.
Naomi; CH uses very little water for inside. CH lawn should be using less water.
If you see water coming on in the middle of the day, something is wrong. This should not happen.
Nancy: As we got mandates together, mandates from landscape committee, it is an independent committee. I am going to do what I want to do when I am going to do it.
Reviewing the systems, coming to conclusions how we are watering the systems.
Mike P: Stephany Drewer would be willing to talk to us about water use. She is the water use expert. Landscape committee could take advantage of her.
Heather: Mary will be at meeting on Wed 22.
Mike A: If you see the water on during the day at the CH it is because I am fixing or adjusting the sprinklers.
Process (Laraine) Process committee requests all committees to submit their mandates by the next Saturday ACM, August 11. Landscaping and Safety committees have submitted theirs. [correction: Process, Landscaping, and Safety]
Orientation/Process (Heather) An ad-hoc group composed of Process and Orientation committee members has been meeting to help establish committee mandates and to complete an orientation guidebook. The committee provided four copies of the guidebook for review. Michelle, Mike P., and Anne volunteered to offer suggestions and editing for the document. Other community members who are interested in creating a thorough welcoming document are encouraged to review a copy.
The ad-hoc group echoes the request for completed committee mandates by Saturday, August 11. The following committees currently are considered active. The check indicates a submitted mandate.
Water usage discussion added to Storage Bin.
Laraine listed the following maintenance concerns for discussion:
Discussion (summary): This discussion is one for a committee, not ACM. However, we have no maintenance committee or responsible party and we have to address these and other maintenance concerns. In the past, Kevin, George, Mike W., Mike A. and Mary have been on maintenance. Mike W. and Mary still help with maintenance. Mary takes care of many community maintenance issues. If there is not a separate committee, maintenance responsibilities are the purview of Management. Management is ultimately responsible for the physical maintenance of the community. Mike A. suggested that Management should assign people to complete tasks. Vaughn said that Management doesn't have that authority. Let's face the fact that we don't have enough people who are showing up. Mike P. agreed the issue is not those specific maintenance items but lack of participation. It's the same problem and the question is ?How do we get people to participate?? Michelle noted the difference between the expectations of living in community and the realities. There is an ?ideal? she can see, our potential. The difference between that potential and the reality is sometimes disheartening, but it signals a chance for rethinking our discussions. She noted the necessity of maintaining our property for structural, safety, and aesthetic reasons. She questioned the practice of looking at the community in terms of what we don't do, rather than what we do. To always be focusing on what is not working is draining. We take a lot of people who live here and do a lot of work for granted. Discussed process of having Management solicit volunteers from the community for these jobs. If none, pay a community resident to do the work, if none willing, hire it out. Vaughn asked for concerns about maintenance to be directed to management. Nancy expressed concern that not utilizing community residents for work moved us away from being a community and toward becoming more of a regular condominium association. Heather said we don't have residents willing or able, paid or unpaid, to do some of the work that needs to be done. Work has been an ongoing issue for many years. We should be realistic about who we are and how we can reasonably use our abilities, our skills, energy and time. Do what we can, acknowledge all we do, and not punish ourselves for what we can't do by not getting it done. Many who have worked on maintenance are not able or willing or available for work at this time due to work schedules or being out of town. Mike A. wants to be able to keep a list of tasks, accomplished and pending, that will be reported at each ACM. He had that role in the past and was frustrated by lack of coordination/communication on the committee. Heather noted that Hob and Matt are compiling a list of community tasks for the Work Support Committee. Suggested that Mike A. coordinate with Hob and Matt. Mike A. volunteered to be the Maintenance Committee coordinator again; Nancy volunteered to be his assistant, since she is often home and able to make and receive calls. Applause all around. Mike P. requested that Mike A. and Nancy consult Mary because of her knowledge, experience and skills. Mike A. and Nancy (and anyone else interested in being on the committee) will establish the Maintenance Committee mandate.
Discussion precluded ACM schedule discussion. 1 ACM a month instead of 2? Next ACM!
Kevin: Jacob came into the Green Building Center with a permaculture design course. And Kevin realized that our community is a good location for this. Big committment, 2 weeks very intensive course. Only around 12 such courses were taught this year in the USA. Permaculture originated in Australia, and the teacher of the course comes from Australia. Jacob is the convenor; he works at Tracy's plant nursery/organic farm. Kevin is already a certified permaculture designer.
Jacob: you are a natural fit: space for people to stay, for classes, ethics and principles, garden plots etc.
The course is very intensive: agroforestry, how to map the landscape Students will make permaculture designs for Wasatch Commons as their hands-on learning activity.
We need classroom space, food will be catered from one world cafe, camping in the orchard or staying in CH.
Cost for course on sliding scale depending on accommodation 950-1050
The course will pay $1000 to community for accommodations. If more than 15 sign up and there is a profit the community gets 40 percent.
Community has to provide two thorough cleanings of CH, deep cleaning in middle, deep cleaning at the end.
For the master design for this place, course attendants will want to inverview residents, so that they know what is the residents' vision.
Discrete and formal interactions with the community: introductory get-together, potlucks.
Also informal interactions.
At very end very formal presentation about design for community, and the community gives them feedback.
Kevin: great marketing opportunity for cohousing. These are allied individuals who will spread the word about Wasatch Commons
Mike P: Is it a business entity? Jacob: more like a network with several partners.
Wasatch Commons needs to get a public liability insurance for the time period of the course, and the course will reimburse this in additioin to the $1000. This is one of Darren's requirement.
We need to get a quote from our insurance carrier ASAP.
Will we get designs that can be kept by the community?
yes, each group of 4 or 5 students will make its own design, with the expertise of the instructors.
Hans: do we need a business license? Or is it a donation?
It will be considered a donation.
Mike: akin to a regular condo renting out their clubhouse for their members. As long as we are not out there solicing businesses it should be ok.
Are people going to use the power tools?
Chain saw to cut the lumber for raised beds, but if the community says they don't want to use these power tools that will be ok too.
If the insurance is too onerous they won't do it, but we expect the insurance to be affordable.
Us approving it does not put us into the liability to pay an outrageous insurance sum.
Mike: can we have a meeting with the residents halfway through so that they get feedback for their design?
Darren is very engaged and professional. Residents can approach Darren.
Will the course participants go home over night? Jacob is hoping that most will stay here. and not go home. Being on the premises as much as possible is important for the course. Ideally most of them will stay.
Approved unanimously, no stand-asides.
Lynda and Mike will not be there, but they can open their wi-fi for the people camping in the orchard.
Laraine: on Sep 28 there will be a community dance, but everybody is invited.
Jacob will put a list up for people from Wasatch Commons to sign up for the course. (is in the mail room. If you seriously think about taking the course you should signup so that Jacob can contact you.
Will movies or multimidea presentations opened up for community members even if they are not enrolled to the course? Yes, this will be another source of informal interaction with students. We will post the times and dates, perhaps half a dozen (Kevin)
Hob: thanks for our donations for the MS bicycle run.
Vaughn: the Tibetan temple on 740 South 300 West (it is called Surgyen sempin Link and Tree Utah office is upstairs) has open houses July 6-8
Temple is housed in an old LDS chapel, article in the catalyst about it.
Vaughn: pursue the Kier repairs, parkign lot asphalt fixes.
Next meeting Tuesday Juy 3rd.
Lynda: Celebrations met Tuesday, trying to decide date for anniversary party, Mike and Lynda will be gone from Sep 22 - Oct 14.
Shall we have the anniversary party same day as icecream party?
Icecream party is on September 2nd, labor day.
Of those present it seems that almost everybody will be here.
Ice Cream party is not going to be changed.
Hob: the more parties the better.
Joanne: good idea to combine it.
Will it work despite Labor Day? It sounds like it is going to work.
It is a done deal.
Combine ice cream social and anniversary party.
Additional discussion item brought up by Nancy. Nancy: suggestion for the community: if there is an open house come early to the Common House to see how things look: Nancy did have to do spot cleaning today. Somebody had spilled liquid, then it had been tracked. Tablecloth had food stuck on it.
Clean up after ourselves.
For the closing everybody had to say who they would like to move into the 3 units for sale (Steve, Mike and Candice, Lisa) and Hob who is looking for a housemate.
Love to see a couple of young families who are really interested in the environmental aspect.
They must like people, families are good, children are fine, parents wich children are very invested. They should be easy to get along with.
I like the self-selecting, but also like the environmental aspect. People who are into the cohousing ideal, more meals.
genuine, young in spirit, environmentally conscious, intentional community oriented.
family with children, environmental, socially conscious.
someone who has time and energy available and actually attends ACMS.
People who are not too rigid, aware of the committment of living in cohousing, willing to do the work and participate. Families with children, environmentally conscious, relationship building, people who like to dance.
In order to provide a little balance we need a born-again Christian Repubican family.
polygamists polyamorous.
more children bring life and vitality and energy. Parents usually are so much more invested and it is such a joy to offer the childern the richness of our community.
People who have have faith in other people. What most people have talked about. Children in the multi bedroom units, ages should be younger, so that they can grow up here. environmentally responsive, willing to interact.
Vaughn: go out and find someone that fits that.
Vaughn: Deck repairs are being taken care of. At the end of the Summer the asphals on the parking lots will have to be fixed.
Vicky: There has been a lot of interest in Wasatch Commons -- which is good, we will need someone for the Crown unit, and Steve's unit.
Orientation materials were updated.
A list of Glendale businesses is in the community directory. Lynda will update the directory
Mary and Hob got 6 truckloads of branches off the property. There is a big pile of branches in front of Noorda's house, and Noorda is ok with us putting our branches there. But only wood, not other trash. The city will chip that wood. This weekend we will work on getting everything to the curb, pickup will be Monday.
Heather reported about the mandates: We as a community empower committees to do work, and these mandates spell this out.
Ad hoc committee working on the mandates, combination of process and welcoming (membership), Nancy, Heather, Joanne, Vicky. They have been meeting Wednesday mornings.
The community has 5 core committees:
Work, Membership, Process, Management, and CROWN.
Other committees: Landscaping, celebrations, parents, CH furnishing, safety/security, various ad-hoc committees.
Every member is expected to serve on 1 committee at least.
A questionnaire, adopted from information we got from Laird, has to be filled out by every committee.
Heather handed out a detailed questionaire how Process answered these questions for their committee.
Lynda: how would process decide that some committee needs input?
The note taker thinks the answer was: either the committee itself approaches the process committee, or the ACM decides.
Hans: does the ACM approve the mandates?
Heather: comittees do not need ACM approval for their mandates.
After this mandate for the process committee, all other commodities have to draw up their mandates as well.
Hob is convening the work support committee. It will meed Sunday June 3rd 4 pm. All work team leaders please attend to get the mandate started.
From: wacoho on behalf of Heather Hirschi\Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:36 PM
To: wacohoSubject: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes clarification
Heather reported about the mandates: We as a community empower committees to do work, and these mandates spell this out.
Ad hoc committee working on the mandates, combination of process and welcoming (membership), Nancy, Heather, Joanne, Vicky. They have been meeting Wednesday mornings.
The community has 5 core committees: Work, Membership, Process, Management, and CROWN.
MOST intentional communities have the first four core committees. We have a fifth, CROWN. Core committees are those mandatory to the community's sound function.
NOTE that due to the complaint from the city official about our use of the words, "member" and "membership", we have changed "Membership" committee to "Orientation" as per Mike P's discussion with the official.
Other committees: Landscaping, celebrations, parents, CH furnishing, safety/security, various ad-hoc committees.
Every member is expected to serve on 1 committee at least.
A questionnaire, adopted from information we got from Laird, has to be filled out by every committee.
At this point, we are working on the mandates for the core committees only. When the mandates for core committees are in place, we will work on additional committees.
Heather handed out a detailed questionaire how Process answered these questions for their committee.
Process has drafted the committee's mandate. The group arrived at the mandate by filling out the questionaire. The draft was presented as an example for all, but particularly for the core committees.
Lynda: how would process decide that some committee needs input?
The note taker thinks the answer was: either the committee itself approaches the process committee, or the ACM decides.
Establishing a mandate for each committee will ensure, eventually, that the work of the committee is clearly delineated. Therefore, if committee work is not happening, the community has recourse to address the problem.
Process is the committee charged with "overseeing" the healthy function of committees. If a committee does not meet its mandate, or if the committee's response to the mandate questionaire is incomplete, then Process would approach the committee's convener or the entire committee. If the committee needs further input, or if Process cannot fully address the concerns, the issue would come before the entire community.
Hans: does the ACM approve the mandates?
Heather: comittees do not need ACM approval for their mandates.
I am sorry for this confusion. I did NOT intend to suggest that committees do not need community oversight. I think we will have ongoing discussions about committee mandates and that some committee mandates will need to be reviewed by the whole community eventually.
I was saying that Process, as the committee empowered to guide committees, would be the first committee to review the mandates. I believe that for the most part, Management and Process have mandates that are fairly stable. I may be wrong, but I anticipate that the mandates for those two committees, at least, will not need ACM approval.
If people want to review core committee mandates, it would be appropriate to have that review after Process has reviewed those five mandates.
After this mandate for the process committee, all other commodities have to draw up their mandates as well.
As mentioned, core committee mandates are our first focus. Committees should welcome this process of establishing mandates as they will create a clear direction for the group's work.
Thanks for reading.
Heather
2nd May 15-20 students they will do an hour project. Community members to participate. 5-8, community members please come out and help out.
This friday is old time community dance bring snacks, michelle and Trishia, Paul and Gracie will perform during intermission. It starts at 7:30
We need somebody to take donations at the door.
Candce is having a birthdy party Saturday 8 pm.
Sunday April 22 when we had the table at the Earth Jam, Steve Coooley, auditor of the State Department of Consumer Protections came by. He objected to us distributing the cohousing journal because it was soliciting donations for the cohousing association on its back cover. Mike P had a long talk with him on the phone. If we stick to promoting the idea of cohousing here locally, we are ok. We should have a sign saying: We are not soliciting donations.
A number of cohousers have small balances in their statement, unpaid laundry fees etc, please pay up.
Working towards holding clearing meeting with Michael F, will probably be on Sunday May 6, we will bring him a letter on Friday
Next meeting is May 2, 9 am, at Vicky's house.
Working on a Welcoming package which lets people know what to expect in cohousing.
The membership (welcoming) committee is one of the 4 generic committees: management, process, membership, and work.
We have the security camera signs. Candice brought come equipment to install, but we still need a VCR for it, If anybody in the community has time and skills to install it. Put it into the mgmt office.
Myste's car was broken into, and graffiti They did quite a bit of damage to the car. Probably it was kids.
Potentially pretty destructive, they did something awful to Jen's car. Get it off asap.
Myste said the people breaking into her car apparently looked for ID in the glove box, for ID theft? There is a paper shredder in the office, when we throw out junk mail with credit card applications etc. Nancy has a good shredder, everybody is welcome to use it.
Graffiti on skate board by Paul and Sam is not good either.
There is a graffiti hotline.
If any of the lights are out. we still have 3 bulbs. One of the lights illuminating the parking area from George and Heather's unit is covered by a tree, move it?
Also good to go to the Community Council, there is usually a policeman there.
You can call the police, speak to the gang unit. There are ways to get more police presence out here at night.
Common House doors are often unlocked during the day, lock them when you are leaving the CH.
Matt and Zack, Noordas's kids, are around. It is neighborly to let them walk through.
Myste has been doing her own patrolling with a heavy flashlight Michelle is going to purchase a big flashlight, so that she can flash on the central path out of her bedroom window.
If you are walking out at night, take a whistle.
We would like to begin with a baby step today, namely, the role of the monthly work team leaders. It was never made very clear what is expected of them. This is the first step in the process of getting a proposal together: Presentation of an issue, with questions and discussion Work team leaders should contact everybody on the team, and arrange the assignments. Leader would actually call them, so that there is actually contact. Handoff from preceding and to next team. Early start is important expecially for the lockup of the common house
Follow up if things have not been done. There is generally not enouth follow-up on work. Hans: Laraine organized parties and made good breakfast.
Make sure the lockup person knows what needs to be checked. Exit through the kids room is often unlocked. Check doors, windows, walk upstairs, enter every room.
Sheet Heather prepared: organize 1 work party during month Adding and shifting work team members is really task of the work support committee. But the work team leader can let the committee know if someone wants to do some alternative activity
Maintaining the CH stock of cleaning supplies is too hard for each work team. They probably don't know what to buy and where to store the stuff. The work support committee chair needs to do this. Need an inventory list what supplies we need, team leader should inform the committee if something is missing.
There is a very detailed list, what has to be done in every room. Heather has this, will email it to Hans to put up on web site. This list says how many times a month things have to be done.
Stewartship for the month. If somebody has a party, don't expect the work team to do it. While the students are here, forget about it! Upstairs guest room bathroom was filthy If the person locking up would discover that a mess was left, they should notify the person that has signed up for this area of the CH, or the person that made the mess!
Set up meeting at beginning of month to distribute the assignments. Organize one work party per month, mainly for the own work team but others are invited to come. Follow up after the work is done.
End of Hans's minutes
From: WaCoHo on behalf of Heather Hirschi\Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:52 AM To:
Subject: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes clarifications/corrections
Hans, please add these clarifications (in italics) to the minutes.
>ACM Minutes April 25 2007* >>The membership (welcoming) committee is one of the 4 generic committees: >management, process, membership, and work.
These groups are generic to cohousing/intentional communities. These are the CORE committees that ensure basic function. Wasatch Common also will consider the CROWN committee a core committee.
>If any of the lights are out. we still have 3 bulbs. One of the lights >illuminating the parking area from Vicky and Mike's unit is covered by trees. According to Heather, Mike was thinking about installing another light on his house that illumines the Cheyenne parking lot.
Thanks for taking notes!
Heather
Heather: Early June there will be a party for Salt Flats
Students from Vermont coming in Easter Sunday April 8 leaving Saturday
Process Committee is getting together the suggested mandates for the committees, then the committees will edit them and design their own programs, then this will be decided in a All-Community.
Heather gave info about Laird's Facilitation trainings in the next two years, beginning June 2007, at various co-housing units. We may want to send someone as a student, and / or we may want to host some of these meetings (around 15 people).
Part of this training is conductiong meetings. If they come to our community, they may facilitate a All-Community or a mini-retreat.
Heather would like to participate as a student. Anybody else interested? Great opportunity for ayone who wants to further their facilitating skills, and it would be good to have these skills in the community.
Looking for someone for maintenance work. In the absence of a maintenance team the management committee has to take over the supervision of community repairs.
Work committee: has not been meeting, but workshop has been cleaned.
City cleanup: do we even know if it is going to be this Spring rather than Fall? You cannot put things out more than a week before, we certainly cannot do it now. Needs to be double checked when it is
Kevin: we are back on the deck project. Resolve and finish lingering issues with north facing decks.
If you have issues get a hold of Kevin. they are going to come out first week of April.
Project got sidelined when it got colder, and there is probably a defect in the repair
Linda: Crown inspecton on 13th, we worked very hard to have the units in top-notch order, they dinged for a smoke coming on with a one second delay.
significant dings on paperwork issues . In 2006 checking on income was not 90 days within the date of move-in.
Linda got a nasty email from the inspector, some paperwork was sent to the person who sent us the request and hand-delivered to the boss, rather than filed with the boss directly.
Vaughn: this is not the way to treat a program like this.
Welcome to the world of low income.
Linda: we are looking at someone who does the paperwork for us, we still do the work maintaining the units, but some expert who knows the regulations would be doing the paper filings.
Hans: The URL is http://gaia.econ.utah.edu/organizations/wacoho />everybody should get an account at this site, and after you have signed in I will make you members of the wacoho group. These group members can see content which others browsing the web site don't see. The site does not yet really exist. As an example of visible content I put up a page with info about our co-op buying clubs. Example of private content is Amy's retreat minutes and I will also put up these minutes there.
I am still learning the ropes, but I think this technology can greatly help us make some of the organizational work here in the community less burdensome.
The meeting ended with a very moving extended check-in.
Besides a personal check-in, everybody was encouraged to say what they like about cohousing.
Cohousing is like an extended family, with cranky Uncle Ralph, cousin who has money problems, you know everybody's business, everybody knows yours, wich can be very comfortable, but if you need something they are there for you.
Comforting to be here and not be a stranger.
best of times and worst of times, the only way I ever wanted to live.
Great place to live if you want to live in a community-oriented kind of way, but don't be too rigid in your expectations, trust the process, takes alot of effort.
tests my flexibility and keeps me humble.
Being here makes me reexamine how i think i know this world, also humbling. Need good balance between privacy and communal actions.
nice way to grow as an individual, being more compassionate where people are coming from
Works best for me if I am exploratory, I learn a lot more, learn about myself and others, it's an adventure.
You don't necesssarily have to like everybody. I rather live in a community where I know everyone, and how they earn their living.
I grew up in an elistist family, good experience for me to live in this communty
Trick with cohousing: we live in diversity, it is a lot easier to say we live in diversity than to actually live in diversity.
kid from a really tiny town. He not only know everybody in town, he knew the name of every dog in town, everything is so close.
Spring break kids will be here next Saturday, stay a week, work for Tree Utah, they will probably also do a community project.
Big anti-war rally nationwide on Monday, March 19 March ending up at Federal Building.
Don't forget about daylight savings tonight.
April 7 Utah parrotheads(sp?) have fundraiser at first Unitarian Church, Vivian will be dancing.
Vicky's sister and husband are here, bright yellow car will be in East parking lot.
Paul has a dance concert March 20 in conjunction with Ballet West
Paul also has arts stroll on March 30, drum solo.
Sunday March 11 Fundraiser dinner for Tibetan Youth Congress and Students for a Free Tibet, at the Indian walk-in center on 13th south, $13, tibetan food.
Wed March 21st equinox celebration.
Vicky: Genny and Tailor requested use of CH computer for homework and email.
To make the request they have to agree to be on a work team.
Dojo was discussed in parents committee; Genny, Taylor, Sam want to use the exercise room.
Michelle would like a general cleanup of the two rooms. get stairs cleaned.
Lots of people have stuff there.
Older kids wanting a different space in the CH, we will bring it up in an ACM.
Perhaps we should discuss it as whole community, then write the proposal based on that discussion.
Why does Genny want a Common House key?
Genny: for using the computer, or get ice, use piano for her arts school.
There is no issue she is in the CH, she can go alone to the CH and still be supervised by Vivian, but she will now have her own key.
Our procedure has been to discuss it in the parents committee and then announce at the ACM.
A community member would have liked to open up discussion about it, but was asked to come to the next parents meeting which is first Sunday of month.
Community consensed to this process.
Heather: process how individuals become responsible, since they at the same time join a work team.
Mike A: can the parents committee do that?
Mike P: process committee is presently looking at the mandates of the committeee.
Hans: Genny's transition is cause for celebration.
Vivian: Genny agreed to be part of a workteam.
Mike A: my concern is tying the work responsibility with permission to come to CH.
Mary announced: fruit trees have been pruned this spring.
Find a space in CH for youg adults to gather.
Michelle wanted a chunk of time devoted to this in an ACM
Alcove area upstairs on right when you come up.
Need to revisit original work proposal from February 2006.
Heather: This plan hasn't worked well, but this was becaue we didn't have the bodies to fill the slots. But now revitalization of the community, therefore we should revisit it See what can be made to work instead of throwing it all out.
Question about the common task list: do you sign up for the whole year, or do you look at the list when you have extra time?
We need to have a sign-off sheet.
you cannot really see if people do something. Just sign or initial the item if you do something.
Work tasks list might need to be updated. Responsibility of the work support committee, or of the team leaders.
Each work team organizes one work party.
Any individual can call a work party.
Work team identifies the project, other community members can join and help.
Work support team constituted by leaders of their work committees.
Laraine is stepping down from work support committee leader, but she remains a committee member, Too many stressors in her life.
Is one of the work team leaders willing to chair the committee?
How to start implementing things more fully.
Laraine: I love work parties, I would like to be the person on this work committee to make sure there is a work party each month.
Someone: Addendum to this proposal, one person on the record to make sure it gets done.
What is glaring in community that needs to be tackled at this time.
Vicky: Spring cleaning first sat and Sun April, Summer ceaning first sat and Sun June, Fall cleaning first sat and Sun October Winter cleaning first sat and Sun February
Do dojo this month.
make list of what needs to be done.
Not everyone in community is using dojo, especially those who are using it are invited for this work party.
Next Saturday dojo work team? this is Laraine's suggestion. Sat morning 8-12. Laraine will put up a signup etc. Laraine not the primary organizer, but she makes sure the work parties get organized.
Shall we designate a specific weekend each month as the work party weekend.
Mike P: Henry should take part in dojo cleanup, but Mike can guarantee henry will not be there at 8 am.
Michelle wants to organize the dojo equipment, because cleanup and equipment go hand in hand.
Meet in dojo decide what todo with it.
Getting people together is almost impossible, you have to arrange tasks and have people sign up.
We are asking for a functional workcommittee.
adding a work party every month.
keeping the CH stocked. Someone: Didn't know that the work team is supposed to buy stuff.
Tasks of the team leaders: perhaps the team leader in the month before calls around and asks people what they want to do.
Someone: can't we just lowercase everybody (no work team leaders), have the work teams decide how they want to work together? They can decide if they want a leader or no leader.
Laraine: it is not going to be done if you don't have a leader.
Consensus emerged that we do need a work support committee, Mike acknowledged that. On the committee: Laraine, Michelle, Nancy, Laraine still on but no longer wants to be the leader of the committee.
each work team needs to decide who is going to facilitate that team.
Laraine never had the list of the tasks.
Read the things people have signed up for.
A few specific work committees were discussed where the team leader wants to step down etc., but no binding decisions made. It is up to the work teams to determine who is team leader (just as with the management committee).
City Spring pickup coming soon. call city and figure out what the date is, Mary will find out. Would be a good April work party.
Still need a convenor for the work committee. We don't have a maintenance committee right now. That is a hole that needs to be filled.
If common areas need maintenance bring it to management, regarding your home talk to your neighbors.
The list of Committments from the Retreat was read*.
From: wacoho on behalf of Heather Hirschi\Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:50 PM
To: WaCoHo
Subject: Re: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes Sat March 10
Attachments: work proposal.doc; task sign-up.doc; ATT00022.txt
ACM Minutes Saturday March 10 2007, 10:00 am to 12:00 pm
Parents Giving keys to young adults for the CH. Finding a space in the CH for young adults to gather.
Work Support- Reporting on the first work project, and times for work projects. Organization around that project.
Celebrations- Up coming events.
Look at notes from the retreat on Committees and activities that people signed up for.
Here is the document that reflects our last consensed decision around work. This is the plan that was in discussion at the ACM Saturday. I want to clarify that it isn't so much that the plan doesn't or hasn't worked. The problem is lack of implementation. For some work teams, at least, the monthly task list piece (second attachment) has been working well. I trust that we have new, creative energy to take on whatever we need to do!
Thanks, Laraine, for all your energy around work parties!! We have prior plans for this weekend, so we will miss the party, but I will make sure we remove anything that belongs to our family from the dojo. I'll also ask Zane to check in with you about anything that he might be able to contribute.
Heather
From: WaCoHo on behalf of Heather Hirschi\Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:50 PM To:
Subject: Re: [WaCoHo] ACM minutes Sat March 10
Attachments:work proposal.doc; task sign-up.doc;
Re: ACM minutes Sat March 10
Here is the document that reflects our last consensed decision around work. This is the plan that was in discussion at the ACM Saturday. I want to clarify that it isn't so much that the plan doesn't or hasn't worked. The problem is lack of implementation. For some work teams, at least, the monthly task list piece (second attachment) has been working well. I trust that we have new, creative energy to take on whatever we need to do!
Thanks, Laraine, for all your energy around work parties!! We have prior plans for this weekend, so we will miss the party, but I will make sure we remove anything that belongs to our family from the dojo. I'll also ask Zane to check in with you about anything that he might be able to contribute.
Heather
(one hour left)
Laird: In community all the responsibilities of a job without the thanks.
We have power.
Tough spot to serve in leadership in community. Shoot the leader is a common thing that happens. Not that people do not make mistakes but there is a way in which leadership cant have everybody do everything. You need leaders, need a way to support leaders. Individuals do not have a lot of personal experience with this in our culture. Some people tired, some felt need to armor themselves before putting themselves in that position.
The boxes on committees are not clear, people are cautious, but then at risk of not doing enough accused of ineffective, lazy, but if you do too much then people say you should have asked about that. So we need to come up with good mandates.
today: go over our structure and see what we want or not
examine committees and get a mandate for each one Job for process?
nancy and Joanne in the room we need more people to process
we could ask for help all are welcome to the meetings anyway
homework question from yesterday was what would you need from the community in order to take on more from the community
The committees that laird wants us to look at are management, process, work support, and welcoming. (we have more, maintenance )
How are agendas set for the acm, laird recommends management take that on, management well being of the community
They should decide what is plenary worthy. is it plenary worthy? Is it mature enough, is it ready? Ducks in a row, timing, priorities what order do we go in what has been waiting long time
not a decision-making group but a steering group, gatekeeper, draft the agenda
Second piece for mgmt, task followup people.
Problem solve to see things are followed through on and have deadlines make sure things are on track
1 task following and 2 gate keeping for management.
Also needs to be an appeal process so if someone gets iced they have a process to make your case
The case could be taken to Process, Process could advocate, then if consensus is met then they can take it to the acm
Process's mandate
Mandates that ad hoc committees would have
What are the expectations of committees or ad hoc committees? the mandate is the box, wall of the box, money, etc
When selecting a facilitator
Heather/ pool of facilitators could be process committee or not
can do a debrief together in a supportive way after matt? Keeper of the heart? What is it facilitator has to do a lot, keeper of the heart is part that someone else can hold in a complimentary way
coordination between management and process
if you have one strong committee it becomes a taret, power group, subject to criticism
diffuse power divide functions there will be more blance
diffuse targeting
membership
ann did not know much b4 moving in. not an ideal way
two key things are 1.screening((pool of potential members, pre need, ongoing discussions with interested people, vision statement, have some pool to draw on, lined up) and 2. integration. After they buy the house. They don't even know wat questions to ask. Be proactive, copy of agreements, lots of people to talk to so they get a picture. There are lots of things that are not written down.
Work support
Semi active
Three ways participation happens dollars, labor and governance
Do you quantify the labor or not, how much, what counts? What flesxibility do you have? Periods of time where it makes sense and what is commitment to making info known, etc. Is there expectation of serving on committees? Can you substitute dollars for labor
Tricky since dollars get the work done but with no connection
The committee should be available and expected to talk to people in trying to find a fit, informal, work committee and not the work police
Talk things through
The martyrs and slackers conversation
Have to clear the air of that or it will be poisoned
Toxic env. Wil discoutage this is normal though
Be easy on yourselves, have a conversation, get it out, do the best you can, have group oversee a conversation about this, like going to the dentist. Necessary, clean it up, get it over, move on with the air cleared
Work support discussion
Laird: Committees in Wasatch commons are semi-active right now. In community, generally, there are three ways participation happens: dollars, labor and governance. Do you quantify the labor or not as a community, and how much, and what counts? What flexibility do you have? Periods of time where it makes sense to participate fully, or not, and what is commitment to making information known about participation, etc. Is there expectation of serving on committees? Every adult? Every household? Can you substitute dollars for labor?
These are tricky since dollars get the work done but with no connection to the whole of community. The committees should be available to all and expected to talk to people in trying to find a fit, informally; and work committee does not mean the work police.It's important to talk things through. And there is always the martyrs and slackers conversation: to air out what perceptions are, you have to clear the air of that or the air will be poisoned. Recognize it is normal to go through it though (the martyrs and slackers conversation).
Be easy on yourselves, have a conversation, get it out, do the best you can, have group oversee a conversation about this-it is like going to the dentist. Necessary, clean it up, get it over, move on with the air cleared
Go around
Laird: What support do you want that will make you more willing to participate as a leader / taking on responsibility in the committees/community? After that- If you know, what are you willing to do?
Could be project, could be parties, could be slot on committee. You define it how you want to.
Announcement: Management needs spots filled, as the elections are coming up. Total is 5 members and crown and renter reps. Meetings are open also, not secret to anyone. There are two positions available.
Michelle: ask me how I am doing b4 you tell me what I am doing wrong; and I need acknowledgement, kudos, good job; and respecting naptime with Sophie, the red sign means, really, don't try-- off limits. We can do it. In fact, we all acknowledge you, Michelle, for Friday night. Thank you. Applause!
Jen would like a hot tub in community and would like to be a part of the work committee. It represents a place to relax, with no pressure, it's social, safe, other than here.
Myste would like to have ladies nights, as a strictly social, fun time building community.
Jen is interested in rekindling social life.
Heather-dreamtime caf‚, not complaints, just visioning, it was Michelle's idea.
Mike A.: common house a problem? It could be a place for more community building, but it is not inviting, too cold, not welcoming. Turn on the heat? Proposal-thermostat would help a lot. In the future. Mike would be willing to put on the thermostat if it was agreed upon.
Larraine: Does community dances, maybe do it here instead of other places in town, and invite the community, as a place to relax, once a month.
Kevin: wiling to work on design and logistics for a hot tub.
Matt: Work partys: willing to work outside, as part of a committee or a work party. I will need to have help knowing what needs to be done, tell me what to do don't need anything but the box, guidance.
Kevin: Wants to be relieved from maintenance: formally and informally-can everyone honor that? Not approached-- at all.
Question to Kevin: The knowledge you hold, can people ask for the knowledge?
Kevin: There may be exceptions for cases I choose to take on. Also, I am willing to finish a few remaining things. But, nothing new. If someone has a problem at their house, he doesn't want to be asked about it. Don't ask about fix-it questions, don't ask personally or for the community.
Lynda: Would like to help put things on paper in some way to get the information in some kind of brain dump.
Kevin: He will support this big meta-project, but doesn't want the micro-projects.
Mary: has a maintenance binder. Appreciation for what Kevin has done in the community.
Kevin: Wants to do process committee. Many thanks to Kevin for all he has done. Applause.
Mary: Wants to know when meetings are going to be -the committee meetings would help her get to meetings. Bulletin board? She will work on that. Then hopefully she can get to meetings that she spaces. Getting discussion info out early so she can mull it over not just in the meeting, is important.
Hans: I'm learning a new technology with interactive websites-- we can put things up there and templates for proposals, a community management, online system.
Matt: would work also to take on some of the maintenance info since Kevin is leaving.
Vaughn: will do everything he can to work with mgmt and process committees to spearhead how to proceed with all this.new analysis (from Laird) on what committees can and will take on in the future.
Vaughn, is there anything you want?
Vaughn: I'm open to available carport spaces and a prius (he he he..many laughs)
Mike P: would like to se others working on things, and good attendance at acm's would help; keep criticism constructive towards each other, be more sensitive to needs of others, and be aware. Try to sort things out and follow process as much as possible, even those ideas which are well intentioned; What I would like to offer to the community is to stand for election for mgmt or process. Yay! Clapping.
Larraine: needs other people to work with. Then I get tons of energy. I want to move forward without negativity, on work support committee (Help from Jen and Michelle and Kay ) Larraine will offer the oldtime Utah dances here, as a healing activity here.
Linda R would like to see dining revived: lots of talk, but I am the only one who has been cooking once a month. I will spearhead meals in the future. Need general revitalization of the cooking?
Who is willing to cook once a month? Carol on weekends, Michelle, Vicky, Heather, Jen, Nancy, Lisa will try, Lynda, Kay sometimes.
Who is willing to clean up? Myste, Carol, Hans, Vicky, Kevin, Lisa, Lynda, Ann, Kay. Mike A.
Do we need a coordinator? Further the request that if you are not signed up for anything sometimes we need people to pitch in, a commitment to do at least 10 minutes of cleanup. Everybody has an obligation to clean up. Informally we should all help cleaning up. Pay attention to honoring it. Don't want there to be fear of going to dinners for fear of having to clean up. With many hands the work is short.
Myste: I feel like I am receiving lots of support from the community, and acknowledge Linda for that. She has resurrected the crown committee. Applause. Feel good about the support right now. I'll clean up for meals and potlucks.
Ann: Interested in seeing a caf‚ coffeehouse and pub combo: bookstore, social center, willing to help manifest that sheet of paper, who else interested? Joanne, Carol, Michelle, Vicky, Jen, Tyler, Heather. Progressive pub night?
Tyler: My time is uncertain? I can help with garden space or assist others. I know I will be there and have the time for -and willingness for, labor in the garden. Need anything from community? I would like to get to know everyone better, personally, nothing specific.
Nancy: Struggling with spiritual practice, having a hard time with keeping religious traditions, I have found myself creeping into violations of that. I would like others to recognize from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday and other holidays over the year to keep that in mind, acknowledge that we know Nancy will not be able to participate: and say that to the community if we cannot plan around that.
Heather to Nancy: If something does get planned, please recognize that is not an exclusion.
Nancy feels a bit like people don't like her and wants to be able to assume the best, so from social committee she wants more than a head nod. She would suspend xmas and easter celebrations herself, but is willing to live with it. But, she wants people to know that I would not want that to be a focus for the community.
What are you asking? Acknowledgement looks like: be mindful. Say something like: for those of us that celebrate easter, we will have an easter egg hunt, for instance. So it does not imply that everyone is a christian.
Nancy is wiling to be on work support committee.
Larraine says her old time dances is Friday night. That would be something that would be in conflict. Nancy hears this, and feels acknowledged
Heather would like to step back with everything: leadership and especially process. I don't want to do work support, don't want to do just cook and do work team stuff and will commit to clear the garden plot of mine by the end of Feb. This is not for all time and eternity, but for now. Claps! Thanks for what you have done Heather!!!
Heather feels lack of trust, can t do it anymore. Will commit to constructive conversations over conflicts, will make the effort and seek help to try not engage in destructive conversations in the community.
Mike A: requests that teenagers become part of work teams. I will take a look at tools and try to organize them so you can get right to work.
Kevin: comment on tools-- it is an ongoing project, has to be regular ongoing or one time?
Mike thinks it would be handy to have stuff for cleaning bathrooms in common house, speaking about tools in common house.
Mike P: teenager question-- as a parent, what are you asking?
Mike A: Two months a year and work with those on committee, they would then be expected to do the same.
Mike P.: This is not the time to agreements is there someone who can Shepard this? Mike A. can make proposal. Good topic, but not simple.
Lisa: requests we have slackers and martyrs airing out soon (a clear the air conversation soon). And commitment is: I will show up. Applause.
Laird: Need to wrap up
Vicky needs sense of being on committee and not solo-- wants it to be fun and functioning.
With food-- I like to go outside community with people. Wednesdays I have time for lunches, call me for a wed. lunch date.
Committees Vicky is on: welcoming, parents and dining.
Who is willing to work on those? Nancy-- welcoming committee. Heather would be a part of dining.
Acknowledge all the work on welcoming Vicky has done applause.
Michelle could help on a small basis, just don't have time with it all.
Available for tours: Kevin, Amy, Myste, Michelle, Joanne, Linda tours are wed and sat b4 acms and impromptu.
Linda would volunteer to do presentations and do outreach in the community.
Joanne needs more lighthearted social interactions, lunch is great, love tea, come over for tea, lunch. Would like us to connect more and have some ceremony around the four seasons.
Helpers: Lynda A, Myste, Michelle, Matt and Lisa; maybe tie this into the gardeners.
Kay: If someone wants help with discreet job, ask me, I like to research, I am a good proposal writer, edit to help to make clear. Craft proposals. Request: for thank yous.
Close
2:10 pm
eval of what we got out of the weekend
mike p powerful go through lots of work
viky knows people beter and connections were made
Larraine more sense what structure can be
Ideas to chew on
Hans knowledge useful at this time good help
Naomi appreciate patience and leadership you express things well
Lynda processes address for success and proposal process wil be helpful, clarity
Vaughn invites Laird to be first non residential honorary member of Wasatch Commons/
Lisa: Laird approached us as equals helped to hear message from hope from Laird
Helped me to hear nancy and to say out loud my stuff.
If it seems I have not been in community much, I have been afraid I will be confronted by Nancy about something there.
My decision to pull back not the communities fault.
Nancy: Laird you pushed me and gave me what you thought I could take
I could address that and go on.
Appreciated lisa for listening, we have developed defenses and defended each other I was able to express what my defenses are and it established a connection for us. Lisa gets quiet and withdraws and nancy gets bigger and fierce even.
Nancy: it is not lyra that I take issue with, it is the noise not the individual. I hope you got that
Lisa: The need for diversity training is something nancy brought out. laird "got you" and it is possible for me to "get you" now also. I feel unsafe in my home, friends say lisa you have to stand up to her when she gets big, you get bigger tell her how you feel, I don't know how to do that constructively. Lisa tends to be careful and cautious about saying things in conflict, if she says x then for lisa that really means x times 10. Nancy says 10 which is what it is fully and lisa gets overwhelmed by the bigness of the 10.
Nancy: I have anxiety too, I sit and stew, I just deal with it differently.
I feel immensely unsafe in the world I am a ghetto black person in the world who looks white, it's not safe. I'm a lesbian and single and a jew.
As result I try to be careful.
Lisa: Body language is important: you were open with your hands on your lap which made me feel more like I understood where you were coming from.
At the crown interview you had decided who I was and what I was about and it was a big blow when you said I was not owning my emotions and not responsible.
So I ended up in the position that I have to prove I am responsible, or write you off. It feels like a losing battle, like I'm in a powerless place. I feel under surveillance or judgement.
Nancy: I'm not surveiling you, I have to live there.
I feel like people are telling me I am wrong; when I want to shrink I say fuck you and get big.
Feel like someone says you are wrong instead of your ideas are wrong.
People say modify it to me and I realize I have hurt people I get it, and I am trying to learn how.
Laird:what agreements are there? What can we do when conflict arises?
Nancy say when you're upset and if something bothers me I will tell you just leave an opening for me to communicate about it and make requests. She doesn't want to irritate you walking on eggshells.
Would be open to us talking approach me when you can to get to know each other.
Nancy: I will try to check with you to see if it is an ok time.
Laird: what next?
Lisa requests Nancy to not approach her in public.
If Lisa is reactive then they will step back from it and Nancy don't react to her reacting
Lisa: nancy I want you to know I care I want you to feel heard
Nancy: Feel like the whole community wants me to change and I don't want to be a bad guy
Laird: What might make you feel safer if she needs someone along it makes me feel like a threat comfortable for nancy when people are direct
Styles are not comfortable.
Lisa this helps hearing and having people understanding nancy wants normal interchanges
When is Nancy triggered? By shrinking, acting like victim, seeing that in others pushes her buttons.
Constructive thing? I want acknolodgement, a nod of the head. Not to hear you are being too angry, it is hard to realize that bothers others so much, I don't like to trigger somebody.
Can you give me a cue? Non verbal sign to stop and leave you alone and come back to it again at a later safer time? The bird? Time out sign? They agree on a sign hands up in the air as the sign.
Nancy when something is going on I would like to have a way to contact you with some receptiveness.
How can I access you? Don't know what would work for me phone? Door? Nancy doesn't want to increase stress on Lisa.
Nancy feels like she cannot approach anyone even if there is noise your domain sacred and mine isn't
Want an in-the-moment response.
Try to call then go to the door then if exchange didn't go well, then you will make time later to talk about what did not work, in the moment the noise problem is the thing then after get help discuss what happened and if you need a translator get a translator.
Break. Fishbowl again
Laird: What did you like about what you saw?
Hans: good be aware of different languages we all speak and translate
Interesting to see al the defensive postures we assume-joanne
Mike a: respect and how we define it differently all disrespectful to one is not to the next
Mike p: helpful to have neutral facilitator with the parties
Kevin: address opportunity neutrality was important lisa working against nancy s feeling thing maybe ask nancy to bring someone along someone as a third party
Kay: reminds me the expectation that you will be heard and listed to lets you approach it if you think they will not listen then of course they wont
Nancy heard in your comment that the loud person should become soft Laird translated: if you take it into account what is going to work for the other person it will help
Would be interested to hear in this room, who shrinks and who expands? matt
In conflict you need a link, a bridge, establish a connection, fix the break in the link, acknowledge what the distress is that caused the break, they feel isolated and misunderstood when they are distressed.
Matt: are there a lot of wounded relationships? Yes 10 or so hands went up
Laird:the hands that went up were mike a, Lynda, kay, mary, Larraine, ann, Linda, nancy, Joanne, Vaughn, matt, mike p, Kevin, mike w, jjennifer
Michelle: I have done 3rd party conflict resolution offering to community. As for Lisa and Nancy it was good they were using I statements.
Mike w: We used to have committee.
Larraine: Deescalate good.
Lynda: Big fierce people put people in defense mode and their friends so big fierce person doesn't get what want nancy not unreasonable but complicated by delivery
Laird: Never asked somebody to change who they are that is not what it is about there is not a right or wrong mold. Diversity issue.
Heather: Equation of style it is not just style because if I shut someone down what am I doing? What about non violence?
How we define violence is not uniform, dicey ground, may have bad strategies reflect on that good question but not our job to tell people how to be link is broken, help each other
Laird focused on flow.
Michelle: What I get out of this is if I see Nancy get bigger I cant ask her to not get triggered. My job is to remain un triggered.
Nancy: Seek to understand rather than be understood. I need to take that on too and want to expect it of others cant make promises I want to give assurance to community. I get where heather is coming from I will put effort into it. Tragedy is people think I don't care about relationships.
Mike A: A catharsis needs to happen.
Linda reed: we are not asking nancy tochange, but there is a demand that we change to adapt to the style we are expected to change and accept the fact that nancy is aggressive I don't accept the style and I wont engage with someone like that. I don't see it as style
Laird: you are coming across like I know what proper is
Linda: think about how I interact with people is this working ? there is some absolute about behavior I don't to accept, I will go away, leave the moment. We all have personal boundaries you dont get the right to abuse me. I don't need diversity training just because I don't like to be yelled at.
Laird: It is ok to leave.
Linda: But I don't appreciate someone saying there is something wrong with me because I don't accept the style
Laird: What do we expect from here?
Heather No expectation? Come back together later? It is not easy to come to attacker.
Look this feels like abuse it hurts too much.
Collective support would be nice there for you, available to the group.
Vicky: I heard nancy say she has heard us, and I want to respect that.
Linda to Nancy I find your style abusive.
Lynda: I find that abusive too.
Nancy I am not intending on being abusive, you probably don't either
Laird if you feel attacked or abused if others are then you need to realize
Mary: we do have rules in acms we stack we use I statements and we don't call names. Acceptable communication would go a long way to keeping escalation from happening
Laird but not all of it is in the acm. Standards are fine but what do you do other wise?
Lynda: Two responses 1 work through it with the person with expectation or 2 not put any effort, no relationship, there are so many things going in life, choose where to put imput and attention and don't want to be accused when I choose to walk away.
Hans: we as community are stronger than individual and should tolerate an aggressive style. We know what is meant and it is something we can look past also if others are really triggered ok but not gang up on people. We should have a policy accepting and embracing individuals.
Community should have resources to help people bridge.
We all need to realize we will react and have something like this at times.
What do we expect out of people and community?
Kevin: opportunity not a problem, grow learn adapt our core purpose to deal with build relationships I regard conflict as opportuinity.
Mike: expectation hope is that both parties would step toward each other a bit. I saw that today laird: reframing compromise is tricky
Mike p: we still want to try living in community after all this. This issue ties into orienting new people. I ahve awareness that there may come a time we decide this is too hard, not interested, not core group, maybe we dissolve we are not at that point, hope fully never.
Mary disagrees does not like the community playing psychotherapy with members I do not want the community dragged into it we would not be here if more people dealt with things with each other in small groups exhausting garbage I donot have skills or ability to do this I can solve problems I don't even want to listen training might be good.
Amy: fearful a conflict resolution model will not be developed and will not be utilized. There have been mediators in the past and it has not been used mush to my knowledge.
Michelle: consequences threatened and abused might not want to resolve that and individual has to make their own decisions. You cant force people.
Laird: There are communities that say you have to make a good faith attempt at figuring out the consequences of a situation, and to resolve conflicts because it threatens the eitire community.
Lynda: unequal equasion style perceived a way by lots of people balancing abusive perception with unwillingness to move forward in some communities the person unwilling to be abused has to leave? The person unwilling to expolore the relationship if you refuse to engage. Unacceptable to some groups.
Laird: We want community support if people want it.
There used to be a committee.
May want to formalize it, it would be helpful.
Skepticism about doing this in acms and retreats, it can be separate, still important to the entire community.
What are we asking for if anything from people in these things?
Kay: sounds like the person who walks away has onus to get to mediation, person who walks away from should also have responsibility
Nancy: if we labeled it conflict resolution we should not leave it we could come up with a mechanism, part of participation
Myste. think this is so important in every aspect.
Take it to acm about conflict resolution. Set up a group, need a group or person to bring it forward: lisa myste Larraine michelle ad hoch group support for conflict resolution.
We will vocalize but not make a decision.
Ann: thank you to the community, speaks thanks for help in the last month and hands out chocolate!
Resume 3:01pm
Laird: George started building a fence behind his house [#25]. How could it have gone differently? Use the model I presented this morning.
George: 1st I'm not interested in building a fence anymore like I did at one time. Had a problem with the way the block came about, it felt unjust to me and it upset me for the whole summer the way those acm's went. There were three different acms about it. Three things: 1. it was never decided 2. ambiguity of what common property is in the first place.
When I first moved there were big huge thistles right up to the door and the side yard was a mess and the soil was not amended and the grade was not set properly no plan for irrigation was done and there were plantings done randomly. It was overgrown and a mess. I was told it was my responsibility to keep care of those plants. Mike Wasons yard it is the mirror image of mine they put sod down and [ut in the sprinkler system and other lawns like crown has water off of the common pipes, but around my house I am responsible.
There was a dog shit issue that had come up about Bugsy wandering around community places. The house there was on "dog row". Vaughn put in a fence. He put a proposal out first. George had talked to people for years about it. He mentioned it to lots of people. I had a little time and money and just went for it. There is a mixed history here, some people have poured concrete patios. I am taking responsibility and no one seemed to mind. I thought this fence was the least possible amt. of building. I was trying to make it nice and got permission from Hans, who owns the house, and everyone else who I thought cared about it.
Came home one day and Kevin was talking to my wife and obviously the conversation had not gone well. He said it impeded the flow of traffic and bothered him. It seemed to me that Kevin had been drinking something. I just was going to continue on my way and ignore Kevin. He left and went to talk to Hans, or I thought that. Hans came back to me and said he did not want the fence. Then people said that it was between Kevin and Hans and then I was mad since I am not a second class citizen as a renter. People thought I should meet with Kevin and that was not going to happen.
Laird: There are more than a few issues here 1. fence itself, is it needed or not? And 2. who decides you as renter, or Hans as owner and 3. upset with the community and not trusting and 4. issues between you and Kevin. There are several things and you have to take them separately.
Heather: there was really a request to deal with the dog. There was no issue presented when we discussed his and there was a breakdown in the process.
Kevin: There are lots of misunderstandings, and I did not go to Hans. I did not try to go over Georges head, I did not go to Hans. That thought got us on the wrong footing and it brought up the issue of renters or owners which is not the issue. The issues for me are 1. security 2. accessibility of common property and adjacent properties and 3. for permanent projects, we get a better solution if we have to go through the proposal process. Mistakes have been made like with the fence at Vaughn and Joanne's which could have been addressed. I would like to see things in the future done better. Mike and Candace's fence should have had a proposal and it has happened wrong in the past, but it is better when the process is followed.
Hans: Opposed to fences. There was a fence committee at one time. I did not want a fence there. Then I bought the orchard and I thought they wouldn't need fences and I thought there should be an opening between some units so there was access to the orchard. I felt shunted with difficult access to the orchard which I bought as a gift to the community.
Laird: Issues are
Lynda: Bugsy the dog wasn't a serious issue, it's a tempest in the teapot, we had not agreed at the first if he was a problem in the first place.
Nancy was concerned about Bugsy, he chased the cats. And feces.
Other factors? Consistency.
Michelle: Look at the fences, the all follow straight back from houses except for the one George planned. Georges fence cuts out to the garage. If your fence was built the same as mine, it goes straight back and George would take in more space, it is inconsistent. Establishing where the common is and where it isn't, when I look out my window, I see Candace's fence. Looks like dividing line is the house, wouldn't you just do the same as the other fences? If you did there would still be permeability.
Linda: one of the things that would sway me is how much it matters to a person. It is a human thing: if it would make them happy, if they were passionate about it, I would be amenable.
Naomi: we agreed to not do construction unless passed through the public realm at first. Technically you only own a little. Mike has plat. Historical perspective. Common area limited common and private (in home) limited common very small some control over it but any permanent structure you will present with proposal to make sure everyone is ok with it. The understanding was you would initially talk with neighbors who were closest. Pergolas. Some fencing done this way. Then proposal process and consenced. LCA's (limited common areas) are around your front door, the porch area in front and rear, make a rectangle around your home. For legal purposes, make it a small official area but then give leeway for people to work the property as they wanted as long as they check with their neighbors. We consensed on dog row but we wanted proposals and they shouldn't be any higher than 4 feet between backyards or 6 in the back. You still need a proposal so you do not end up with these problems. Fences that were consensed were not in LCA's but in the common area.
George: I don't like fences either. Linda clarify on the plot there are fences around crown they can have fences since so small but again should be brought to the group.
No one questions George's good intent.
More to add to the list? Security.
Pet advisory and there is city law there was a change in circumstances since dog row agreement, the orchard was acquired and the workshop was bought.
Walk down the list and flesh things out
Michelle there was no fence at first in back but since I have been living there a couple of guys came from the workshop side and walked along the fence line and were in my back yard and it startled me. I need a fence. For me that was the end of the discussion. I like the view but that did it.
Nancy: some people want security and others think people should be able to walk around here. Heather: in a parking lot unit, we have experienced security issues. To create a corridor between workshop and the orchard it is a concern for me.
Kevin: I was interested in security and researched and cited studies and when you secure the perimeter does help with security but dividing up the internal areas and did not have visual access to see what is going on and it decreased the self monitoring. So, secure the perimeter and keep the interior open as much as possible. If you break up the space that end of orchard could become what is referred to as a "dark corner." So I believe the studies and looked at it and the conclusions are valid.
Heather: we are talking about right here. We can see there is no dark corner. If the fence went all the way back doesn't that create a dark corner? Does it make sense to apply the theory here? It doesn't make logical sense in this application.
Larraine: For us to have security we need a barbed wire fence? No if you are going to use fence to help with security then do it on the outside not the interior. But not advocating fencing.
Nancy: When research is done it needs to be applied properly. Where was the research done. Did people know each other?
Kevin: The research came from a community from England it was roadless. Units were abutting each other. Similar to dog row they had fences that went back. That was one.
Nancy: Kevin is bound and determined to not have a fence.
Kay: since we are not willing to become a gated community or putting barriers we are a natural shortcut. Steering people to the common path seems wise. Close off the visible shortcuts and keep people on common path.
Mike w: security always an issue. A while back a security expert of some sort briefed the security committee she did not recommend fences and recommended visibility; she said that people would shy away if there was not things to hide behind.
Heather: the fence design that they had planned had more visibility than a fence goes right back. Corridor creates more of a dark corner than the gate would.
Does George still want to put a fence in? Debating for the hell of it now?
George. Main issue, one person blocked and Kevin argued it was a block and I thought it should be a stand aside. The process failed and one person vetoed the whole thing when.
Laird: There is woundedness. I want the process to be fair.
George: Means what? One person who can do research and blab at acms can stop me from doing something. If there are objections then how can he say that. George things Kevin is insincere and has a vengeance, and does not trust him. He will manipulate the process and not let me have the fence when he was offended because I told him to fuck off and get out of my yard. He was trying to get back at me. Once he got onto it he was not going to let it go. Feel disempowered and disrespected and manipulated.
Laird: Kevin how are you doing?
I feel like I am on solid ground. I recognize I took the wind out of your sails and it sucks and I get that. That is why I came to you first, to try to talk to you. I favor a fence and a solution. I have tried to represent this fairly, I have tried to not dominate the acm's about this. I don't want that. I want a solution for everybody. We have to engage together to find the right way to go forward. I thought you would have recognized that I have a huge investment in the community and I don't have anything against you and on the other hand I don't question my integrity and I don't think I have had bad intentions on this thing.
Laird: George what do you want. With your relationship with Kevin. In your view he sabotaged your project. He apologized because he recognizes that you are hurt but that he doen't think that he did anything vindictive. You have to live in community. Can you build trust with him? How can he do that, what can he do that would make a difference?
George: Don't know.
Laird: How do you know he in insincere.
George: I tried to talk to him. Finally realized this is being blocked everyone I talk to doesn't agree with Keivn. I think when somebody blocks a decision it is their responsibility to prove it is legitimate or not. He changes and pulls more shit out of his hat. What is a legitimate way he can disagree with him. More a problem for the community process than with Kevin. Kevin had faith in the process. I don't want to go to acms where one guy can just decide to block and not to let things happen. Upset with the community too. I love living here, love people. I felt like let down. Laird: How can you deal with consensus when you don't trust him. How can you build consensus with people you do not trust. What can be forward moving from here.
Vaughn: Kevin, as a perception. A couple of times you blocked things in which there has been repercussions. Easiest way please be very careful about blocks their impact it huge, Hugh G left because of garden shed issue and blocking; we have to be really careful, the ramifications are much bigger than we know. Let's be careful with them, all kinds of waves. Clear statement why this is bad for the community. Why were they protecting the community. Don't know if it was asked at the time.
Kevin: There was not process because there wasn't a proposal. I came in when I was made aware of the situation. I came in as soon as I could.
Hans; the issue is the whole community. George's perceptions have some truth. Community should have made Kevin accountable for the block. We did not do a good job examining the block. Blocks carry wounds for a long, long time. Stand asides might be a more helpful thing to the community.
Linda: too much onus on Kevin. Kevin was not the only block on the shed. Fence, it is George too: George said if I can t do it my way then I will not do it anyway.
Heather: Kevin, I could not take you seriously, you seemed flippant, glib with your drink in hand. In meetings I tryed to express feelings, and your response was that does not matter. I did not want to go sit with Kevin and deal with him. I felt devalued. Did not feel supported. Felt that Kevin's concerns were much more valued.
Lynda: there are many missteps in the process. Can't build on a foundation that is not there. Mistakes from the beginnings. Passion up there. Lots of us supported George out of heartache in the situation but not because it seemed like a good idea. Nothing to be built on now.
Hans: wonders if it is a class issue? Fast talking intellectuals and working class? We tend to listen to the fast talker.
Mike p: the majority don't have a personal stake in this decision; watching a hurtful personal conflict. Somehow that needs to be cured or fixed, not sure we can do it as a community, going back to the process last summer. I came back at the last meeting. Heard the end of it. B4 I left Kevin and George were working in the workshop together. When I came back I thought this is easy we messed up the process no proposal lets get these guys go back to the beginning. Their relationship degenerated and how hurtful it was and how personal. That is what I missed. Sometimes the real work starts when there is a block and you can learn from it.
Michelle: consensus is a process for making decisions with conflict management within it but the process itself is not conflict management and it seems there needs to be a conflict management process. Does it even exist?
Carol: what we should be looking at is the process.
George: I think so too, no accountability for the block. Want to talk about any block not necessarily this one. At that point If someone says I don't think you have a principled stand how are they accountable to prove this should be a block? There needs to be an examination with good intent and good heart. We need to hear what is the basis, the value, the agreement. You try to understand how does it look them? Tied to common value that they hold a bit differently than others. They see how they got there, all can see how it is tied, not that you see it at the same way. They don't weigh it the same way but they could see the connection. Not because they agreed. Maybe no one can see the link. If it doesn't make sense, then you can say we did not substantiate the block. Have to try.
Linda: So what if you do not back off. Then we would not have been able to do that. I had the right to block. I decided not to.
Heather: seems to me there was not a clear understanding about the block. We need help there for the block
Larraine: when there is a block we don't resort to listening to each other.
Hans: I think the situation George does lots of things for the community and we should have recognized we were not at the point when you can block, labor was spent. Criteria for a block was more severe.
Laird: I might have asked basis but also, is your principle still strong enough even honoring the labor that all went into it ready. Exploring that and all is tricky.
Linda: what was missing. That as the potential blocker you cared more about the overall group over your issue. You should always block for the community not just for your beliefs. We need to look at the loss from the block. People looking at the whole. It is dangerous to think you know what peoples intentions are. Needs to be discussed. Empower the facilitator or someone to bring up the points and discuss. Part of consensus decisions, we have factor for the individual.
Lisa: after an acm where we have gone through a block. What do you do next? Start again on same subject? Several things. Reflection helps. Creativity about finding your way with the issue.
5 pm time check, supposed to end, goes on
Structure we need a method we follow structure.
Lynda: loose process caused as much of the tension as anything there were lots of mistakes. George: Disappointment.
Heather: there are lots of wounds in the community. Really want to make a decision about my commitment in the community here. Realize this hurts. I do not want to feel like this. I have not been able to just be. Old wounds. We have to figure out a way of encouraging and helping each other. Don't have a mechanism for addressing that. As you start to acknowledge that you have not dealt with it but then there are a lot of lumps under the carpet. There is a backlog.
Laird: Homework tomorrow on participation
What do you need to feel more willing to participate in the community more fully
Build to succeed.
Check in with divination cards.
Laird: Met with lots of individuals b4 the retreat. Here is his sense of things
Issues today: Fence, Nancy and Lisa, and lets start off with a discussion/listening about Viv and Michael.
The community has some paralysis in the face of conflict.
There is frustration with the lack of product at acms.
There are unclear committee mandates.
Not enough people on committees.
Not following agreements.
"Membership roulette"
Tragedy of the commons, there is something of an us vs. them mentality, when really it is all ours, and we need to take collective responsibility.
There are good memories of past vitality
The tank is not empty, there is lots of love, just needs to be energized.
There are some who are not here at the retreat. Keep a place in your heart for them. All we can do is the best we know how, and we all have to make our own choices. People have busy lives.
(not the way we were raised) we try to defend our ideas in our culture, to persuade, consensus is different, in consensus a good meeting is one where your mind is changed, not the other way around. New ideas are welcomed and heard in consensus; don't get furious, get curious is a motto.
work appropriate for the group
not too big (issues for city council) or too small( what color to paint the closet)
Someone/group/committee should be the gatekeeper of what gets to the acm's (the plenary, as Laird referred to it)
What is plenary worthy?
Clarifications of common values to live by
Strategic planning
Annual budgets
Process agreements
R and r of members
Bylaw modifications
Mandates for standing committees
Relationships with outside entities (if we are part of larger orginazitations, if some outside group has a problem with us
Court of last resort when things get stuck, bring them to the wisdom of the entire community
(if you don't care, participate and listen anyway, see what can be learned or you could also find yourself as a mediating force)
there is a baseline negativity in our larger culture about meetings, if you expect a bad long meeting, you will get one
So, we all noticed that the proposal is not first in that process. Why do folks want the proposal first? They want a consise meeting, don't want to waste anyone's time, but you get the cart before the horse the good intentions of a few people will miss factorsthat will come out and then it can become a train wreck. People on both sides shut down. All voices need to be heard, then all needs can be taken into account when a solution is found.
Define the box. Define the biggest box you can that everyone can tolerate, then give the box to a committee. Then, the plenary gets what the committee does. Make the edges of the box crisp, so the committee knows exactly what to do and the plenary knows just what to expect. When you are not clear what you are asking of individuals, it is a trap.
Voting will save time but will not necessarily build energy in a place dependent on the work of the whole team, and you will get better, creative, whole solutions with consensus. With volting you win and then can scate and not do any more.
Then we answered a question by standing on a continuum with our bodies What is most important for you to get out of acms, getting work done, or building a sense of community and consensus? Move yourself on the spectrum .(most were on the sense of community side of things )
Vivian told her story
Michael always had behavior issues, but was sweet and loving. Has always had issues with transitions, did not graduate from high school last year. About that time he avoided Viv, then in the Fall she began pushing him to figure out what to do. He's LDS, so in October Viv brought in his Bishop to see if it would help. Don't know if this created anger on Michaels part. Then on Nov 7 he and a friend started a fire in a LDS church, which cost a million dollars damage, and he got caught that night. Michael is in jail, and his friend that was with him, being under 18, is in juvie. The nature of crime is aggravated, so he can't come home until sentenenced, which will be sometime in March or April. His likely sentence will be 6 month to a year jail time. He could come home anytime after sentencing if they count his time served. Has a public defender who is a friend of a friend. Don't know what it will look like when he comes home. Half way house? Job corps during day, here to sleep? Viv does not want him on a full time basis.
How are you Viv? It's hard. Started a new job the day b4 this happened and no one at work knows. Viv has chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, made worse by this. Feeling guilt. I worked so hard trying to be a good example to my kids; maybe I should have had more time with them? Disappointed with my parenting. It hurts.
Does Michael have health problems, is he ok in jail? Are they treating him? His asthma has been treated, but he is not receiving his mental health meds, he won't take them.
Was there something the bishop did that triggered his anger? Don't know.
Next Monday on the 12th Viv will be having a dialogue with people from the church. Viv wants to get across that it was not a hate crime, not personal.
Is finishing high school an option? Not in jail. But he is talking about it on himself. Job corps would get him his ged and job training. What does Michael have to say about it? He feels bad, mentioned that his dad dying has been hard on him, and said why didn't I just come home? Remorse.
How is the jail experience affecting him? Seemed to be even for a while, now seems down, in a transition area, new people all the time, on lock down the last couple of weeks because of others in the area.
Is Genny ok? Not necessarily dealing with it, she is angry, talks to him on the phone a little bit.
Is he getting letters? Will he be on parole? He has a little money, he needs it for toothpaste, salt, sugar, haircuts, medicines, and phone calls. He will not have a trial, just appear in court then sentencing.
Can we visit him? Yes but email Viv since he can only have one visit per day on Sat or Monday. Can have 3 people but they have to go at the same time. There is an inmate number, which is especially since there are actually two Michael Fergusons. They will deny you if you don't ask for the correct on. Takes a lot of time. You have to be there 1.5 hours before the visit, then you get .5 hours for the actual visit.
(What comes up around Vivian, what comes up around Michael, either one or both.)
Matt: injustice to spend an hour and a half for a half hour
Tyler: knowledge on subject since family has all been incarcerated; these things happen, a variety of people end up there, so don't blame yourself for it Viv
Linda: our hearts go out to you, it's sad
Michelle: as a mother, I cannot imagine the difficulty
Larraine: we do the best we can; she feels that pain and feels responsibility as part of the church. People are not perfect, even bishops.
Mike W: respects what you tried to do for him as a parent, Viv you tried counseling and were involved in his education.
Lynda: hope for Michael that he will learn from it and get on with his life
Vicky: maybe I should do more, I think of him every day, still think of him as the little boy that he was when we moved in. I hope you keep coming to the group for help if you need and to keep us updated.
Vaughn: I have come to appreciate how hard it is to be a parent and what I did not know. Never connected with Michael much, but now I wonder if I could have helped, this is one of our kids in our village. I care but am not good at expressing that or making it work. Prayers are with him.
Hans: saw Michael had a need for love, helped him wake up in the morning for school trying to help. Sometimes even if you have a whole village and we can't do it either.
Heather: conflicted. Sorry he is in jail, has not found his way. I have seen people try so hard to be present, to say we have failed is to ignore the love. But, at the same time there is confusion about collective parenting vs individual. Want Michael to own his own stuff.
Viv: I am aware of the energy the community has put into the situation with Michael and my family and I am not asking for anything else.
Nancy: conflicted, I'm not a mother, wish for you healing. Aware of the caring here for Michael. I feel frightened, concerned for Michaels impact on the community and for us to recognize it. Lots of problems. Lots of efforts. My work in the past was in prisons. There tends to be confusion on the part of the family about what it means to assume responsibility for actions. Because of support here maybe people keep him from experiencing the consequence of his actions. Reluctant to see him come back here. He is no longer a little boy. This is a hard position to hold, I feel it puts me in a strange place with the community.
Jen: lost trust in Michael, guilt about that
Lorraine: works with kids, the more terrible shame people have the more they continue to do it. There is a point where there is guilt, then shame. The best we can do is have expectations of Michael and encouragement to make good choices then let go.
Lynda: we can believe too little , too much, but it wont have answer something things just are.
Hans: Adrienne lived in my house for a while which was a good balance. I had confidence she was on the right track and gave her my patience. If Michael comes back, maybe I can offer him that room, I am thinking about it.
Carol: I was shocked but not surprised by this you, you can't blame yourself.
Michelle: all any of us can do is take responsibility for ourselves our own actions and being willing to examine that if we think someone else needs to take responsibility in themselves we need to just take responsibility for ourselves. Thanks for allowing us to have this conversation.
Laird: What does Vivian want? Now? Tomorrow? There is room to change your mind.
Viv: Don't know what I need or want. No answers. Not for me or Michael. So much is up in the air.
Laird: Do you need a check in person? Yes, Vicky. If you want to reach out to Viv right now, check with Vicky, she will be the support role the coordinator for Viv this way. Should we have this conversation down the road. Community, Vicky, as things come clear, she will be ally in support but also so there is a conversation, and Viv can ask for what she wants and community can figure out how to support.
Vicky: the innocence of the child is easier to talk about, other things are not easy to talk about, will the problems continue to happen, how much to trust, how much to extend ourselves.
Hans: Conflicts about Vivian and the community about things. It appears Michael stole things and Vivian protected him from the consequences. We seem to gloss over a lot of things in our discussion.
Laird: this will have to be a part of what the community can do to support Viv and Michael in the future.
Michelle: worried about the pattern of not bringing up the tough stuff and don't deal with conflicts well.
Viv: feels like she has done everything I can.
Linda: this is the kind of retreat that I was afraid of. Concerned for Vivian and her feelings don't want to tear it apart. I don't like where this is going. Downward spiral.
Mike P: I think this is neutral or upwards, parenting and holding ourselves as parents and our kids responsible. Keep it out there in a more neutral way.
Mike A: says we have had a meeting like this. I did not know any of this. I'm not sure it is productive to do this.
Heather. Uncomfortable to move toward this. We thought about how we wanted to focus the retreat and this is not it. I really want to leave. I'm afraid we will get mired in muck, and not have a good feeling.
Mike W: go into the other big issues and then dive in after hearing all three.
Kay: some things that should not be said.
Myste: concerned this will not lead to something productive.
Lynda: feels a bit like bait and switch. This is a time when Viv is most vulnerable. Doesn't feel right.
Nancy: earlier discussion on consensus This is example why we don't reach consensus so we don't just leave it there. Did not want to strip Viv naked or anything. Want to have a foundation.
Laird: hearing that is timely for hearig about Viv and Michael and all. Good chance for sharing about her and this. You don't need to decide on the decision on what to give Michael today. Get a process in place so that it is dealt with in the future. Seems not ready, don't know what we need, what will happen with Michael anyway. Complicated. There will be time to respond. Nervousness aobut it. But it isn't ready. There are other things cued up for the retreat that are ripe.
Michelle: the issue is the pattern where things don't come up until the end then we put it down.
Laird: appreciate viv and her willingness to do this today. It is so hard, and it is a hard time.
Hans: you are a survivor and we all have our limitations and I don't think you should have done more. We as a group can help each other. There is no reproach for you or anyone else. If we pool our resources we can do much better. I have seen the community get through very tough issues.
Laird: this is an example of the parent kid issue, where do we go who is responsible it is always a dicey issue and gray area.
10 min break 2:47 pm
Zappa concert end of Jan., Henry has tix. $7 at the Circuit in Midvale
Talent Show 7 pm Saturday -tonight!
Community Council 1-17 at 7 pm at Riley Elementary.
Ann has back problems, may need help, talk to Kevin or her daughter Gina
Post Carbon SLC showing the end of Suburbia 1st Unitarian church Friday 7 pm
Paul Migeley CSA Amy can coordinate talk to her if you would like to join
Isabella's father is having a movie in sundance.
Work Proposal. Larraine, waiting until after the retreat
Dining, Carol and Vicky no other new activity, waiting till retreat also
Dates 2-2 through 2-4. Retreat committee: Heather, Michelle, Mike P, Joanne, Nancy, and Larraine
Those are broad goals and different ideas Laird will be focusing on these within our discussions. Wed night he will be arriving, and Thursday, has offered consultation all day to talk with individuals, three will be a sign up sheet that goes around tell him things you feel he needs to understand? For example, something you are not comfortable talking about in front of the whole group.
Pot Luck will be on Fri 6-7 pm. Then there will be games, first with kids and then on to adult only. The schedule will be fleshed out by next meeting and will go out on email before the retreat. Can the January work team clean up b4 retreat and Feb clean up after it? Joanne added that pledge and payment today would be great.
Vicky reported that scateboarding was the main topic. Noise from skateboards is difficult for Anne, boarders are asked to stop near Mary and Kay's house and walk the board past Anne's house to the basketball court. If anyone forgets, kindly remind them of the new rule. Another reminder is that if someone is walking, stop skating so pedestrians have right of way, don't get too close. Kevin and Trent might do soundproofing on the ramps come spring. The kids agreed to put away the rails and ramps when they are done with them, as especially with the snow they are dangerous.
Next Parents meeting is Sunday the 21st at 4.
Commonhouse: got a replacement table vacuum, dust brush, and tablecloths.
Need to remind snowplow guy not to block fire hydrant on west side. Also, the city requires us to clear sidewalk on east side- Cheyenne St. The mailman asked if he could use our bathroom, they have keys to put packages inside.
See handouts: profit and loss, balance sheet, and proposed 2007 budget
Vaughn and management reported: Providing a way for consistency in bookkeeping and accounting has been one of the primary goals we have looked at solving this year.
For the Crown management this year we had four (!) different inspections this year (many more than ever before) and discovered during that that papers had not been filed two years before, and that could have been difficult and complex to solve, even jeopardizing our Crown status. It was a critical reminder that all of these accounting functions have the potential of putting the committee at risk.
This budget represents a proposed increase of $3600. There is a line on the spreadsheet which is called Crown Management Fees and it is the amount of $1800. In the past that has been rolled into budget, now we suggest that goes to someone on Crown to deal with all the issues, inspections, reports, responsibilities of Crown. That money comes from the crown rent, $30 month per participant. There is another line which is for $1800: professional fees, management. We propose that this $1800 be used for an in-house accountant stipend, to take care of bookkeeping and accounting, helping someone to feel appreciated and motivated and responsible for all of the tedious and timely aspects of the bookkeeping. (There are two separate items, 1. crown, 2. general community bookkeeping, running reports, etc).
Other issue in the budget: each year certain things are not getting done because not enough money set aside. But, maintenance only spent $200 last year, so we hope people realize there is money to take care of projects, as there would have been money last year to get gutter toppers or other maintenance items, and so we left the $2500 in the budget this year for maintenance as well, and we hope this gets realized. Some committees requested additional moneys we honored all those requests, however, to do all this it will take an increase in our homeowners fees.
Clarifying questions: Crown new added charge? No the $1800 was coming in each year to general operating fund anyway, from here out management would like that $1800 directly to someone to be responsible for it. Someone to do it? Linda Reed offered to do both.
Oppenheimer account is over 50k and that is for parking lots and roofs and it has grown significantly in the last couple of years.
Laundry income $600 or so, then half is set aside for machine repairs.
Has everything been paid? Bills all paid, there are $525 outstanding, people owe. Thanks to Linda. Suspense item? We don't know yet. All other crown projects have one office manager for dealing with the details. We probably have the smallest salary of all them. Mike A suggests: putting as much in the investment acct as early as possible in the year. More time for return, be aggressive. Then by July we could be finished. That would be taken to mgmt committee and it can be a month to month decision. Hans, month to month dollar cost strategy. Spread out the risk of buying high or low.
Will there be monthly budget reporting now? Yes, a requirement of that new position to report fully. Need others involved, apprentices? Shared, so it is not just one person. There are others in community who have understanding, maybe not time or interest, but also management oversees. Treasurer would be not Linda and work very closely to insure transparency. Or she could write out instructions. So if someone else needs to there could be a timeline, like desk instructions at a job.
Separation of duties. All checks come to mgmt to be approved, and needs two signatures over $20. This position does the footwork in the background. But all financial decisions stay in the mgmt committee. This will help more people understand.
Mike P asks: extra 15 minutes for meeting? Granted.
Put in place an accounting system, with all the vital pieces, to eliminate the chance of putting the community at risk. This could be decided for this year, to be agreed upon a yearly basis. Lots and lots of support for Linda. Reminder from Linda: a 6% increase is included in this budget and mgmt wants to make sure that gets discussed. Joanne has a chart with increases. Handout: email from Mike P and increases are laid out on the back page. Proposal take budget as is and take the line item of crown mgmt fees and put it in then take it out in expenses . Linda would be the crown and the mgmt bookkeeper. Pass the 6% increase as of Jan 1, with Feb payment, add the difference. Amendments? Management will discuss the tax implications of paying someone and how. The water on workshop not just meter, it is for water now that the bathroom is in. Ok change that.
No blocks. Naomi stands aside. Everyone else consenses.
Postpone until after the retreat. Hopefully more people would run then. Currently on the committee: Mike C, Nancy, Hans (finishing Brian's term), Vaughn, Linda (crown rep), George (renter rep), and Amy. Finishing terms: Hans and Amy. Consensus on postponing elections? Elections would then be the weekend after the retreat at the acm on Saturday.
No blocks, no stand asides. Consensus.
April 25, 2020